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  1. #1
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Housewife49's Avatar
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    Smile newbie

    Hi.. we have had a few koi for a number of years and usually no problems, unfortunately we have a problem at the moment and i am looking for advice as admittedly we dont know an awful lot, at the moment we have a few fish which are about7" both koi and goldfish and also have got some young small ones in,, they were all doing fine untill one of them kept hugging and lying next to the pump,, we actually took the fish even though he was small to a koi place (cascade at Bury) and they did a scrape and said no parasites could be seen, did a water test said it needed a buffer which they sold to us and we put in the pond to their instructions, after a few days no difference other fish except one more appeared ok, but the odd one i mentioned was flashing a bit, and also the poorly one when he moved he was flashing on his side a few times as well,,we found out about a chap who we got to come along look at and treat our pond with ..Potassium Permanganate this was yesterday, today everything is basically the same,, the poorly fish keeps having a swim round the pond and then going to the bottom again,, didnt know if it was actually swimbladder but he does manage to swim round the pond ok before he actually goes down to the bottom and stays close to the pump.. but we have noticed one of the big fish was starting to flash a bit today as well, and another little fish,, so now in all honesty we are a bit stressed because obviously we dont want to lose them,, is there any advice to be had off anyone that may help . thankyou


    Last edited by Housewife49; 04-10-2019 at 04:09 PM. Reason: hadnt put enough info on post

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    How much water is in your pond?
    Whats your filtration and water pump set up?
    Whats your filter maintenance program?
    Do you carry out water changes and how much and how often?
    Have you tested your water for ammonia etc.....?

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    What did they say the pond needed a buffer against and what product did they sell you?

    Do you know what your PH and/or KH reading is?
    And as many other readings as possible if you have them, Nitrite, Nitrate and ammonia as mentioned by Solvent Cement above.

    What was the reason the person you had round treated with Potassium Permanganate? Did he carry out a scrape first to determine what he was treating, or was it just a shot gun treatment? (PP definitely a harsh treatment to try as a shotgun remedy without proof of what you are treating).

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry Housewife49's Avatar
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    Hi,, as i said earlier we are really novices.. cascade tested the water and they said the ph was ok but it just needed a buffer? they provided me with something called a KH buffer which we treated the pond with, but it didnt seem to make any difference by this time we were struggling as we didnt know what to do so then we got the guy who we have previously bought some fish from to come to the pond and he did water checks and said that everything was great. the ph and ammonia and other levels were all good! he didnt carry out a scrape but we told him that cascade had done a scrape and they said there were no flukes or parasites showing up on it. so i am assuming that this pp was a shotgun treatment,,, and the guy that came does have lots of tanks with fish and i believe he is well up with treating fish, as well as breeding them,, i dont have the readings which he did and im sorry if this sounds very vague but to be honest i dont know anything about fish it was my husbands hobby, and unfortunately he has now developed dementia and although its not in the later "bad" stages . its bad enough that he does forget a few things,, although he still cleans his pond and feeds his fish i do know there are 3 or 4 chambers which have aqua, and matting in them and the pond is 1164 gallons and has uv light, pump and aerator plus a waterfall, and i really do wish i could tell you more about it, but i have it seems to coin a phrase been unfortunately thrown in at the deep end,,,, and im sorry if it all sounds vague,, but thankyou for replying

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Thanks for coming back to reply and I'm sorry to hear about your Husband.

    Its really difficult to pinpoint the cause with such limited information as I'm sure you appreciate.

    A PH crash can give the symptoms you describe. PH should be at a stable level between 7 and 8.5. KH is something that is in the water that helps stabilise PH. Over time KH gets used up by the filter bacteria and this is replenished each time you do a water change. If water changes have been lacking and the KH drops really low this increases the risk of a PH crash which is deadly to the fish.

    So the shop that sold you the buffer may have been concerned about the PH or KH levels when they tested your water and therefore sold you something to try and relieve this problem (which it might have done seeing as the 2nd person who came round said your water was perfect).

    None of this is to say that a low KH or PH was definitely the cause but as the shop picked up on this it seems a possibility.

    If the Koi have been in the pond a long long time and no new fish have been added and this is the first time you've had such problems then the first thing to look at is the quality of the water.

    This is backed up by the fact the scrape came back clean (but not a certainty as it can take multiple scrapes on different fish before the parasite causing the problems is found).

    So going back to the very first reply you had from Solvent Cement, these are the pertinent questions......

    Quote Originally Posted by Solvent Cement View Post
    How much water is in your pond?
    Whats your filtration and water pump set up?
    Whats your filter maintenance program?
    Do you carry out water changes and how much and how often?
    Have you tested your water for ammonia etc.....?

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry Housewife49's Avatar
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    Thankyou for the reply... i will sit down with the hubby after and i will endeavour to find out.. i do know the water was tested for ammonia and that was fine! the size of the pond is 1164 gallons... i cant answer about the filtration and waterpump set up or the filter maintenance programme, he does do water changes and i will ask him about those as well.. and get back to you later on,,, thanks again......(continued)..Just managed to ask him the questions, it was hard work! i asked about filter and water pump,,, the answer i got was,,, he has a UV,, aerator,, and pump that takes the debri from the pond,, in his system he has 4 chambers,, 1st one is japanese matting,, 2nd is the same,,, 3rd chamber foam...4th chamber is aqua supposedly to help keep the ph correct,, as for water changes,, he said . he cleans his chambers about once a week, i have seen him take all the matting and foam out and he uses a bucket of pond water to clean them all,, and then when i asked about water changes all he said was he undoes the valve in the first chamber and then he has to suck the other three chambers out then he puts the matting, foam and aqua back in then, puts the pump and puts the hose pipe in the pond to refill, as i mentioned before this dementia does stop him from being able to explain properly a lot of things, and i dont know enough about it,, only that i have told him i think he cleans it to often,,, whether im right or not i have no idea,,, also he said that underneath the matting sometimes he sees small black things (alive) but he doesnt know whether they should be there or not,,, i know these replies are vague but its the best i can get out of him,,, the little fish is now lying on its side by the side of the pump in the pond,, but its been like this since before the chap came down and dosed the pond with pp,, if you touch it it swims around.. we did wonder if it had swim bladder at first as it was swimming on its side, but not as much now it swims ok but only in short blasts and then goes back to the pump and lies on its side.. the other fish seem ok a couple of them we thought were flashing but that seems to have stopped Im probably looking for a miracle, but i cant think of anyone else to ask . thanks again
    Last edited by Housewife49; 05-10-2019 at 03:02 PM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    The Maintenance regime you describe sounds thereabouts spot on, so nothing there that needs to change.

    I don't suspect its the cause of the symptoms you describe but one red flag in your reply was that your husband puts the hose straight into the pond. Chlorine can kill Koi and it will also kill the beneficial bacteria in your filters. Fresh water going into a Koi pond must be dechlorinated first either by attaching the hose to a dechlorinator unit or buy adding dechlorinator to the pond.

    I think your best solution here is to have someone round who really knows what they're looking at and can give you definite solution.

    Maybe not the previous guy who did the PP treatment as a shotgun remedy. His intentions would have been good but its a harsh treatment to use so we tend not to use it unless we know exactly what we are targeting and know for sure it is the right treatment.

    If having someone round is something you'd consider then post on here your approximate location and either someone on here will be local enough to pop round and have a look or we can recommend someone in your area.

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry Housewife49's Avatar
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    thats brilliant thankyou,,,, we are in Bolton lancashire if thats any use

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    Hello Housewife 49, I have a lot of admiration for you to support your husbands hobby since his dementia,I am sure he is proud of you.

    Agree with Rs above,the pp is aggressive and I think maybe check for chlorine.
    Maybe your hubby topped up straight from the hose without adding any dechlorinater (I have done it when I first started) maybe you could ask him?
    If so then it can be added and get back to us.
    John

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry Housewife49's Avatar
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    Thanks John, i have had a word with him tonight and all of a sudden out of nowhere??? he said im sure i bought a set of 3 filters . (a long time ago) and they are set up near the waterfall, a set of three containers held in a frame,,and i THINK they had something to do with chlorine in the water but id forgotten (which is his problem with the dementia) all about those,, so i said well if theyve been there for X amount of years they will need new refill filters, so tomorrow "without falling in the waterfall" . lol try and get the frame out and i'll see if there is a name on it so i can order the filters,,, i would imagine if they're all 10" filters if i cant get the same product there maybe filters which fit any make, i will check anyway and try to get it sorted.. He even found a microscope in his shed today, but unfortunately no clear slides so i have ordered some slides, its an old microscope (like us) but at least i can TRY to start looking at stuff in it and see if i can fathom it out... thankyou for getting back to me its really nice of people to try and help and very much appreciated

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hi me again, maybe better to go to your aquatics place and get a bottle of dechlorinater and add, the three stage filters are not very accurate and a lot on here dont trust them.

    Myself and a lot on here use Sodium thiosulphate very cheap on ebay
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sodium-Th...591dde676b39c9

    Will find the dose rate for you but it is a cheap alternative to aquatic dechlorinater.
    John

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry Housewife49's Avatar
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    OK if you could let me know how much i would need for our pond and how we use it that would be great thankyou . ..viv

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    65 grams per 500ml of water then u use that as ur dechlorinator. 10ml per 450 litres

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    Quote Originally Posted by RudeDogg1 View Post
    65 grams per 500ml of water then u use that as ur dechlorinator. 10ml per 450 litres
    Spot on mate.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Spot on mate.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Copied it off you lol

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    So is there anyone on here in Bolton that would be able to have a look at the OPs pond?

    Or is there a specialist in or near Bolton that does health call outs?

    Being a southerner I don't really know anywhere North of Watford but I know Springbank Koi are reputable in Manchester area and may do fish health visits.

    Found this on the web in Bolton but no idea who they are:
    https://www.greensaquaticservices.co...ance-services/


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Junior Member Rank = Fry Housewife49's Avatar
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    Hi... Im not much use at working things out like this so his pond is 7220 ltrs could you tell me how much would we have to use for that please . sorry this figure is wrong.... its 5308 litres... 1164 gallons
    Last edited by Housewife49; 05-10-2019 at 11:03 PM.

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    ok Im not good at all working things out like that, i believe our pond is 1164 gallons...5308 litres so could you tell me how much of the product would we have to put in the pond please (sorry to be a pain)

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    newbie

    111 ml of the premade solution I believe I could be wrong my maths is crap lol. You canít OD with it

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    thank god im not the only one who is crap at maths lol . thankyou,,,, these were the volumes that the guy gave me who came up and dosed the pond,, so im assuming they are correct..

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