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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Draco Solum 16 drum motor failure

    Well it finally happened - my motor that has been going reliably since 2020ish has finally decided to die.

    Email to Draco.. waiting a response.

    I may be tempted to design and make a gearbox that allows the motor to be housed outside but retains the slip gear mechanism using a weight inside where the motor acted like the weight before.


    14000l, my mutts: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai hippo's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that , Nick . I have the same drum , and remember reading your post about the installation .

    Draco are usually pretty good at responding to such issues , so hopefully you wont be down for too long . At least it happened when the water is cooler !
    Colin

    2500 Gallon Fibreglass Pond
    Draco Solum 16 , 400l Bio Chamber

  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i don't think all drum motors last that long.
    unless you get something vastly larger like some of the bigger drums.

    my QK25 motor packed in last yer after running for just over 3 years, and cost £250 to replace






  5. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    I robbed this off a post someone else put together regarding the draco drum motor. The Original post will probably be on the forum somewhere:


    Draco Drum motor spares.

    Part no. 17HS19-1684S-PG19
    Description
    This Nema 17 stepper motor with 48mm body and 1.68A rated current, integrated a planetary gearbox of 19.19:1 gear ratio. It's a good solution to applications that with limited space but need low speed and/or high torque.

    Electrical Specification
    Manufacturer Part Number: 17HS19-1684S-PG19
    Motor Type: Bipolar Stepper
    Step Angle: 0.094deg
    Holding Torque without Gearbox: 52Ncm(73.6oz.in)
    Rated Current/phase: 1.68A
    Phase Resistance: 1.8ohms
    Inductance: 3.2mH ± 20%(1KHz)
    Gearbox Specifications
    Gearbox Type: Planetary
    Gear Ratio: 19.203:1
    Efficiency: 80%
    Backlash at No-load: <=3deg
    Max.Permissible Torque: 3Nm(424.83oz.in)
    Moment Permissible Torque: 5Nm(708.06oz.in)
    Shaft Maximum Axial Load: 50N
    Shaft Maximum Radial Load: 100N
    Physical Specifications
    Frame Size: 42 x 42mm
    Motor Length: 48mm
    Gearbox Length: 35mm
    Shaft Diameter: Φ8mm
    Shaft Length: 20mm
    D-cut Length: 15mm
    Number of Leads: 4
    Lead Length: 500mm
    Weight: 560g



    The Motor is often a Nema 17 stepper with 19 to 1 reduction gearbox which is about £25 https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/ne...s19-1684s-pg19

    The seal kit for the end of the motor is something like a PS1000 seal which is £7 I didn't check the sizes though. https://www.poolandspacentre.co.uk/p...yword=&vt_camp aign=1684349664&vt_adgroup=67326337804&vt_loc_inte rest=&vt_physical=1006716&vt_matchtype=&vt_network =g&vt_placement=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAqY6tB h AtEiwAHeRopRFmoomMtekwmQZ8y_ejBNxywatdd1kQeG8W3Ek3 2_4CUH-U6zZIJBoCnGMQAvD_BwE

    It was the seal which stalled the motor on mine. I just took the seal kit out. Polished the Nylon up. Put some clear silicone grease in it and reassembled.
    If you have any problem with the stepper driver/ controller board thats actually a Draco item but there are other driver/ controllers out there.
    I should have taken some pics really but the assembly is:

    Nema17 motor and reduction gearbox. From the motor gearbox shaft there is a white nylon shaft attached by a grub screw. This is the shaft the cog is attached to. The nylon shaft passes through a PS-1000 style seal to prevent water ingress into the motor housing.

    The motor housing is just a piece of pressure pipe glued into the black oval shaped plate that you can swing up to disengage the cog when it's all fitted in the filter. I just pulled mine apart to expose the motor.

    To get mine going again I polished up the nylon shaft as it was a bit rough to be honest with tooling artifacts from being turned in a lathe. I also polished inside of the black nylon laminated section that the water seal goes through. This was just a cut hole which a couple of rubber seals run against. Again the hole has been cut by a cnc router and slightly rough. I reassembled with silicone grease and all is good again.

    Having said that I don't know how long it will last as there is obviously a reason that Draco have moved away from this setup. I think if it fails again I will just fit a standard geared motor rather than a stepper, and mount the motor outside of the filter with a shaft running through to the drum.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  9. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Well Draco do an external conversion kit for 250+GBP!

    I think an option here is to build my own. I've still got some stepper choppers around here and have experience building servo systems.

    The V = IR means the servo is 1.68*1.8 = 3.024V. This sounds familiar as I have a 3.3V running on 12V using a. micro-stepper current chopper that with a 50:1 planetary gearbox puts out a horrific amount of torque for telescope focusing (it means it has a lot of photography kit hanging off it). With the chopper it works really well for fine focusing and stays completely cold even with 12V.

    I assume the main controller uses a servo controller todo the same or there's one in the little box.

    I'll get the motor housing and check it tomorrow.
    14000l, my mutts: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to see what you figure out.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

  12. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    So I've pulled apart the motor assembly, the stepper-gearbox assembly.

    1. Water and condensation inside the plastic tube of the motor assembly
    2. Water had progressed into the gearbox seal section
    3. Water in the gearbox (it sound rough but with the stepper it turns but there's dirt/gunk/grease in the gearbox)
    4. One of the stepper end screws is rusted
    5. The stepper motor itself (without the gearbox) is siezed solid and can't be turned, even with pliers on the stepper shaft gear.

    The motor is a stepper+planetary gearbox: 17HS19-1684S-PG19

    Given the mode of failure I would be tempted to mount the replacement outside.

    The small module inside the little box seems to take power in and has a speed control this means it has a pulse generator onboard that small board hence providing the motor turning by pulsing the stepper poles alternately.

    I don't know if it's dumb (ie still continues to attempt to turn the stepper with pulses if there's large amounts of back EMF indicating a problem turning).

    The stepper will be a relatively straight forward change. The option here is I could replace the control box completely with a new one and open source the design and coding.

    Fastest option is to get a new stepper, add a hole. and put that in but this will not have the slip gear mechanism so either I make an armature like the previous one or make the stepper motor back off and finally give up. The option here is to use a reed switch and magnet in one of the teeth to measure the time it takes to rotate if it slows then system knows there's a problem - it should see that if there's a gear or a drum problem.
    The beauty of having an open source ardinio style controller is that people can then adjust it or improve it.

    For now I'll order something compatible with the stepper controller (current and voltage) then that can go on the outside.

    Pulling the stepper apart the centre magnet usually runs very close to the pole 'combs' but in this case the centre has green corrosion and it looks like the centre poles are corroded onto the outer, I'd also suspect that it's shorted due to moisture and welded itself together.

    IMG_4072.jpgIMG_4069.jpgIMG_4071.jpegIMG_4068.jpg

    So as you can see - gearbox full of mess, stepper full of mess, so that's a write off.
    14000l, my mutts: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

  13. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    So my thinking is simple. It's not really a precision engineering system (although the rotation is counted by the number of pulses).

    Something like this bevelled 90 gearbox on the onside:
    51n3d6TL4gL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg

    The existing brass rod can then be used for the existing plastic gear, but the rod for the wheel is supported on both ends so it won't bend. The new gearbox and stepper are then connected using a simple shaft coupler.

    This is a 1:1 gearbox hence cheap, but also open so any water or condensation cannot find its way into the new gearbox or stepper. I could use a worm gear but I don't want the gear box on the same shaft that enters into the drum chamber. A mod could be that a normal sized shaft drives through, that then drives a train of gears on an armature so that it retains its slip gearing.

    So stepper -> 19:1 -> 1:1 90 bevel -> through wall -> drive sprocket onto drum.
    14000l, my mutts: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

  14. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    What does the draco outside solution look like?
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

  15. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    What does the draco outside solution look like?
    https://www.dracodrum.com/conversion-options.html
    14000l, my mutts: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

 

 

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