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  1. #1

    Farm Pond Filtration

    We purchased a Barn which we have renovated with a reasonable size pond in the garden. The pond was semi stagnant with little signs of life.

    After cutting back vegetation, some home dredging and addition of both a sub surface and surface aerator the pond is looking good and water quality within the range for Koi. In April this year I added about 30 4-5" Koi which have thrived and doubled in size. The Koi are not for show but merely a bit more ornamental than native species.

    My real question is around filtration. Due to the size of the pond I will never be able to get the sort of clarity of many smaller ponds and frankly don't want to spend tens of £000's on filtration which would also be potentially unsightly. During this summer it had algae growth and Green water. I added some Pond Dye which helped a little but wonder if the filter will help more

    Pond is around 240sq mtrs and 432,00 liters (95,000 gallons)

    I have in mind to add a Oase Biomaster Screenmatic 145000 'kit' (see link) to add a little help and wondered what the thoughts are. I fully accept this won't filter the pond to the levels of a normal Koi pond but I am working on a theory of something is better than nothing.

    https://www.watergardeningdirect.com...Full-Kits.html

    As a secondary on the basis something better than nothing would I be better going for something like the Oase Eco twin so I could add a skimmer https://www.oase.com/en/products-a-z...000170586.html or stick with the Oase Aquamax Premium

    Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
    IMG_7348.jpgIMG_6984.jpg




  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    I can’t see that making much of a difference to be honest, most koi pond turn the water over every 90 minutes or so, you’d be pumping 60k an hour! If it was me I’d probably try and get some weed growing although if it’s a normal mud pond rather than gravel I’m not sure how clear you’d get it.

    Lovely looking place you have though
    13,243 gallons, Filtreau HF30’s K1 capacity of 1,400l, Bakki Shower, BHM and understanding wife

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Djstiles999 View Post
    I can’t see that making much of a difference to be honest, most koi pond turn the water over every 90 minutes or so, you’d be pumping 60k an hour! If it was me I’d probably try and get some weed growing although if it’s a normal mud pond rather than gravel I’m not sure how clear you’d get it.

    Lovely looking place you have though
    thank you for the kind comments on the property is has been quite an 18 months renovating a shell. When you see the tv house renovations and they blow their budget, I can sympathise with that!

    I totally take the point about the normal turnover of water but my thinking was with a max flow rate of 17,500 if I bought a pump that would do this is would turn the water over in 24 hours much longer than normal Koi ponds I know but perhaps a little help?

    The pond is a natural mud pond, I have got some planting establish so hopefully that will start to develop further next year.

    I have added a couple of images of some of the plants and a view to the bottom of the pond in addition to a shot of how the pond was when we bought the property.
    IMG_6992.jpgIMG_6952.jpgIMG_6761.jpgFBDCC444-2A2D-48B6-BB94-7F5A48A67897IMG_2083.jpg

  5. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    Firstly, do not buy a oase screen matic. They do not perform well and are very expensive.

    Secondly, you will never get good clarity on a mud pond. It just isn't possible with carp, they will constantly be turning over the bottom substrate.

    Thirdly, it looks like you've done a lovely job, so far, with what you have achieved. You couldn't have done any better, so you can be happy with that. But you're pretty much at peak for that type of pond. I'd sit back and enjoy it for what it is. A skimmer will be a help in general, clearing leaves, surface foam and duck weed etc. I'd fit one,.but it won't really affect your clarity

    Fourthly, if you want a clear koi pond, you will have to build a separate lined pond (rubber or fibreglass ) one with gravity fed bottom drains and a skimmer etc etc.
    Last edited by Alburglar; 20-11-2024 at 08:42 PM.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    I thoroughly enjoyed this guys Mega-filter series, trying to filter his lake, but ultimately it did nothing and he stopped posting about it for years, until much later when he described how it didn't work and he moved on to other projects.

    https://youtu.be/HohLqY0lrEo?si=MTxzAUjzno7Evnu9
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  9. #6
    Alburglar - thanks for your considered replies and information.

    Your posts have given me a bit of a reality check, which I appreciate. I am pleased with the way the pond has come on and perhaps because of that I am getting carried away!

    Looks like the best bet is carry on with the aeration and more margin planting and a few more lilies and satisfy myself I have at least brought a stagnant ex farm pond back to life.

    The koi were not for show but just to be a bit more visible than native fish.

    Thanks for the food for thought.

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i think it is do-able but forget domestic pond filters like a screenmatic.

    there have been a few large commercial style drum filters on ebay now and then.
    in fact there were some posted recently in the ebay finds thread.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315880238...mis&media=COPY

    I'd go with a mechanical drum filter or two, to filter the solid waste, and just allow natural filtration for biological processes.
    with moderate stocking levels.
    planted well for nitrate reduction, and a few 80w amalgam UV's to help clear the green algae.

    a pond that size is probably better run naturally, but carp are big messy fish that quickly foul the water, so to have gin clear water you would need it to be stream fed.
    but then you are not allowed to stock such waters without a license from the enviroment agency.
    Last edited by davethefish1; 20-11-2024 at 10:38 PM.

  12. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i think it is do-able but forget domestic pond filters like a screenmatic.

    there have been a few large commercial style drum filters on ebay now and then.
    in fact there were some posted recently in the ebay finds thread.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315880238...mis&media=COPY

    I'd go with a mechanical drum filter or two, to filter the solid waste, and just allow natural filtration for biological processes.
    with moderate stocking levels.
    planted well for nitrate reduction, and a few 80w amalgam UV's to help clear the green algae.

    a pond that size is probably better run naturally, but carp are big messy fish that quickly foul the water, so to have gin clear water you would need it to be stream fed.
    but then you are not allowed to stock such waters without a license from the enviroment agency.
    Many thanks for the kind input.

    Wow that filter looks a bit of a beast.

    In reality I never had in mind gin clear water a farm pond won’t allow that but in my mind I was hoping some sort of filtration without going mad might help the suspended particles and ease the ‘Green’ water a little.

    Excuse my naivety but is the sort of filter you have highlighted contain a pump or would a stand alone in the pond be needed to feed the filter.

    Many thanks again,

  13. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    That is a really nice place you have there.

    As mentioned, the fact it's a mud pond will mean it'll be a struggle to keep clear.

    If the bottom is not too silty, then it might clear overtime as it matures?

    One thing, if you do need to pump water, I'd use an airlift rather than a conventional pond pump. They can pump huge amounts of water, are cheap to make and don't cost much to run as they just run off a pond air pump that you usually use for air stones.

    One option to explore is having a large shallow planted bog area next to the pond.

    There's a guy on youtube called david pagan butler (or something like that) who talks about making natural swimming ponds. I'd suggest watching a few of his videos as the swimming ponds get gin clear water which is naturally filtered via the planted bog area (water is circulated using airlifts). Although admittedly they don't have fish in, so it may not work if you do. I'm not sure.

    There's no guarantee it would make the water clear, but probably the only feasible way to keep that volume of water clear in my view.

    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  15. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    That is a really nice place you have there.

    As mentioned, the fact it's a mud pond will mean it'll be a struggle to keep clear.

    If the bottom is not too silty, then it might clear overtime as it matures?

    One thing, if you do need to pump water, I'd use an airlift rather than a conventional pond pump. They can pump huge amounts of water, are cheap to make and don't cost much to run as they just run off a pond air pump that you usually use for air stones.

    One option to explore is having a large shallow planted bog area next to the pond.

    There's a guy on youtube called david pagan butler (or something like that) who talks about making natural swimming ponds. I'd suggest watching a few of his videos as the swimming ponds get gin clear water which is naturally filtered via the planted bog area (water is circulated using airlifts). Although admittedly they don't have fish in, so it may not work if you do. I'm not sure.

    There's no guarantee it would make the water clear, but probably the only feasible way to keep that volume of water clear in my view.

    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    Thank you for the kind reply I have not heard of an airlift pump.

    Currently have a Fujimac 120 to a subsurface aeration stone and a floating pond aerator for surface aeration - see you tube link.

    I must study airlift to see if that will give me mote oxygenation than the stone - thanks for suggesting.
    IMG_0241.jpg
    https://youtu.be/gR-WThz611k?si=brrkmoH0tM1M2RBf

    Both have worked very well over the last year and been transformational in taking the pond from basically stagnant to good pond quality within 6 months.

  16. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    No worries.

    An airlift is nothing fancy. All it really is, is putting an air stone down a vertical bit of submerged pipe. Try it. The top of the pipe needs to be somewhere near the surface of the water. If you try and raise the top of the pipe up out of the water too high, it stops flowing out the top of the pipe.

    As the bubbles rise within the pipe, they pull water in from the bottom and then water flows out of the top.

    Then to direct the flow of water, you can put an elbow on the top of the pipe and direct the flow where you need it (within a pipe if needed, although you need to add t fittings to allow the air to escape).

    They don't really pump water above the water level (despite their name) very well. But they can pump a large volume of water if you just need to circulate water.

    For your set up you can make an airlift out of 110mm waste pipe. The vertical bit of pipe needs to be about 1.5m - 2m long (the taller the pipe, the more the bubbles will expand, the more the water will flow).

    Unrestricted, using a 40watt air pump with a single air stone shoved to the bottom of a pipe, you can probably get over 20k lph from a 2m long bit of 110mm waste pipe from the likes of screwfix. Super cheap!

    If you need more flow, you can just build two or more if needed.

    To ensure the bottom of the pipe can suck water in unrestricted just cut the bottom of the pipe at a 45* angle. Or put a t fitting on, that way the water can flow in from the side and the bottom of the pipe rests on the pond floor.

    The good thing is they are great at oxygenating the water, they are great at circulating water (either around a pond or from filter back to pond) and there's no moving parts to get blocked or damaged (other than in the air pump itself). And they use much less power than a normal pump would.

    I use one on my pond instead of a conventional pond pump, works great!

    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  18. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    No worries.

    An airlift is nothing fancy. All it really is, is putting an air stone down a vertical bit of submerged pipe. Try it. The top of the pipe needs to be somewhere near the surface of the water. If you try and raise the top of the pipe up out of the water too high, it stops flowing out the top of the pipe.

    As the bubbles rise within the pipe, they pull water in from the bottom and then water flows out of the top.

    Then to direct the flow of water, you can put an elbow on the top of the pipe and direct the flow where you need it (within a pipe if needed, although you need to add t fittings to allow the air to escape).

    They don't really pump water above the water level (despite their name) very well. But they can pump a large volume of water if you just need to circulate water.

    For your set up you can make an airlift out of 110mm waste pipe. The vertical bit of pipe needs to be about 1.5m - 2m long (the taller the pipe, the more the bubbles will expand, the more the water will flow).

    Unrestricted, using a 40watt air pump with a single air stone shoved to the bottom of a pipe, you can probably get over 20k lph from a 2m long bit of 110mm waste pipe from the likes of screwfix. Super cheap!

    If you need more flow, you can just build two or more if needed.

    To ensure the bottom of the pipe can suck water in unrestricted just cut the bottom of the pipe at a 45* angle. Or put a t fitting on, that way the water can flow in from the side and the bottom of the pipe rests on the pond floor.

    The good thing is they are great at oxygenating the water, they are great at circulating water (either around a pond or from filter back to pond) and there's no moving parts to get blocked or damaged (other than in the air pump itself). And they use much less power than a normal pump would.

    I use one on my pond instead of a conventional pond pump, works great!

    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the very detailed reply.

    That sounds very interesting as it would give some circulation in addition to oxygenation, lack of circulation has been a secondary concern for me.

    What size air pump would you recommend to give decent oxygenation and circulation if making an air pump similar to your description please.

    Many thanks
    Last edited by pks1702; 21-11-2024 at 09:57 AM.

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  20. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    I think a ornamental stream of water plants could help to pull nitrates out too and it would then prevent the plants from taking over the pond as they grow.
    14000l, my mutts: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

  21. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Only posting this because this rare find would be a perfect solution:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315880238515

    All 4 of them for just over £2000 is an incredible price - They would have been over £5k each new. Run 2 of them and sell the other 2 and get your money back. Each drum is capable of handling 100,000 litres per hour. Far too big for the typical hobbyists pond but your stunning pond is on another level and these could be a potential solution if you are invested enough.

  22. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Only posting this because this rare find would be a perfect solution:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315880238515

    All 4 of them for just over £2000 is an incredible price - They would have been over £5k each new. Run 2 of them and sell the other 2 and get your money back. Each drum is capable of handling 100,000 litres per hour. Far too big for the typical hobbyists pond but your stunning pond is on another level and these could be a potential solution if you are invested enough.
    They are serious pieces of kit!

    Do these have a built in pump to suck water in or do you need a pond based submersible?

    Thanks for the input.

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  24. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pks1702 View Post
    They are serious pieces of kit!

    Do these have a built in pump to suck water in or do you need a pond based submersible?

    Thanks for the input.
    Going by the photos it looks to me these are set to be operated as pump fed, i.e the pump(s) are submersed in the pond.

    They also appear to come with amalgam UV ballasts.

    I doubt the pumps are included in the price so that'll be another cost, and probably new amalgam bulbs as well, and then the relevant pipework.

    I have what is essentially the same drum except much smaller (35k lph) and I run mine gravity fed from a bottom drain - I would say the eBay ones would be easy to set up as either pump or gravity fed.

    The other thing that isn't clear is whether they include the high pressure wash pump for cleaning the drum screen. You'd assume so as they must be in use in the picture of the drums operating, but not visible in the photos.

    Going for these certainly has risks and potential extra costs attached, but for the right situation they look to be an absolute bargain. I can see in the picture showing the control unit that they are Siemens controllers, again quality kit for the money being asked.

    If I had a van and plenty of time on my hands I'd try and get all 4 for £2k and make a few quid cleaning them up and selling them on. I'm pretty sure when I first saw the ad he was asking £2k for all 4, but next time I looked it was increased to £2300, so there might be room for negotiation on a job lot.

    All the pipe fittings are worth a few hundred quid as well assuming the rubber fittings aren't deteriorated.

    Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 21-11-2024 at 11:35 PM.

  25. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Going by the photos it looks to me these are set to be operated as pump fed, i.e the pump(s) are submersed in the pond.

    They also appear to come with amalgam UV ballasts.

    I doubt the pumps are included in the price so that'll be another cost, and probably new amalgam bulbs as well, and then the relevant pipework.

    I have what is essentially the same drum except much smaller (35k lph) and I run mine gravity fed from a bottom drain - I would say the eBay ones would be easy to set up as either pump or gravity fed.

    The other thing that isn't clear is whether they include the high pressure wash pump for cleaning the drum screen. You'd assume so as they must be in use in the picture of the drums operating, but not visible in the photos.

    Going for these certainly has risks and potential extra costs attached, but for the right situation they look to be an absolute bargain. I can see in the picture showing the control unit that they are Siemens controllers, again quality kit for the money being asked.

    If I had a van and plenty of time on my hands I'd try and get all 4 for £2k and make a few quid cleaning them up and selling them on. I'm pretty sure when I first saw the ad he was asking £2k for all 4, but next time I looked it was increased to £2300, so there might be room for negotiation on a job lot.

    All the pipe fittings are worth a few hundred quid as well assuming the rubber fittings aren't deteriorated.

    Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the detailed reply.

    As you outline on the face of it these look very interesting. I think if I was a bit further down my learning experience this would be a serious consideration but currently I really would not know where to start/set up, poor timing I guess.

    I can see the entrepreneur in you having to sit on your hands on the opportunity 😉

    Many thanks

 

 

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