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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai Markl's Avatar
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    Help me decide please - Queni Drum QK15 or QK25

    Hi All,

    My pond is only 1000gallons.

    Current set up, 4" bottom drain to old Nititech filter containing brushes and jap mat. Then a Skimmer running a separate 50L moving K1 Bed.

    My water has always been good, but its hard work to try and keep it good, so i'm looking to invest in a drum.

    Queni Koi small drums are QK 25 (new model) and QK 15 (old model) - very similar in size, but the QK15 has 70 micron mesh, the new QK 25 has 120 micron mesh, the older model is £80 more expensive.

    Which one would you go for? - I'm a bit worried that buying the discontinued QK15 may effect getting spare parts in the future, that's my only real worry.

    Are you aware of any other makes/models @ around £1400 that should be on my shortlist?

    Many Thanks
    Mark



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Same as you, my old filters were capable enough at keeping the water clear and parameters good but I was finding it more and more of a chore to maintain them. Last week I had a Filtreau drum/combi unit installed. Not been running it long enough to provide a review but will say, that it seems very well built.
    One of the reasons that I went with the Filtreau was that the dimensions made it a good fit for my existing filter bay. Gaz at Aurora koi gave me a lot of help and advice, so it's worth giving him a shout.

    Can't really comment on Queni Koi kit but it does seem to be well regarded.

    Good luck getting it sorted

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    120 micron mesh is on the coarse side and won't take out as much in the way of fines as 70 micron will so well worth the extra IMHO.

    I think Synergy are 70 and the Draco which is popular claims to be 58 but some find it washes very frequently. Not sure about the Filtreau.

    Take makers claims on throughput with a pinch of salt and try to go oversize.

    My Synergy keeps the water very nicely clear.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i wish they had just made the 25 entry at 70 micron the same as all the others...
    or offered the option to order one with a 70 micron screen, as it's a big jump from £1400 for a QK25 to £2600 for a QK35 when you don't need anywhere near that throughput...


    i would have been quite happy with a 70 micron screen at 20,000 lph 2,000lph less than the old QK22.
    there isn't a lot of information on why they went with a 120 micron screen other than the obvious increased flow rate for thier budget option.
    and it would be a bit of a gamble as to how well a 120 micron screen performs, when all the other manufacurers use 58-70 micron....
    but it might do ok especially as i'm going from filter brushes to a drum.
    Last edited by davethefish1; 15-03-2021 at 03:12 PM.

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  9. #5
    I have the UK Filtration drum filter which is made by a guy in Wolverhampton. Half the price of the QK drums and 58 micron mesh. They're normally sold on ebay but I can't see any active listings at the mo. If you'd like his contact details, PM me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwvoRlAbKXs

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Rapleyr's Avatar
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    I have the Draco solum 25 and very happy with it. I went for it as I limited with space and they are a small unit. I find the drum cleans around every 20-30 minutes and currently feeding 10 times a day.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  13. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai Markl's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your advice and help,

    I still haven't made a decision, to be really honest, I'm struggling with spending this amount of money on my mere 1000 Gallons.

    Decisions, decisions................

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  15. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markl View Post
    Thank you all for your advice and help,

    I still haven't made a decision, to be really honest, I'm struggling with spending this amount of money on my mere 1000 Gallons.

    Decisions, decisions................
    Future proof for the extension

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i understand the dilema,
    when you look at the price of a drum and your looking at £1500 ish, you want the same build quality as the top end drums just smaller...

    the problem is the common components and build time mean there isn't an correleation in increased cost,
    from say a 35,000 liter drum @ £3000ish to a 65,000 litre drum twice the rating and size @£4000ish
    because of the economy of scale.

    i have though long about just getting a traditional vortex and 3 bay filter properly set up...which works fine,
    but...its the chore of regular filter cleaning... and losing 2 of the 3 bays to just mechanical filtration.

    but after 2 years of cleaning filter brushes and boiling K1 once or twice a week, i've had enough trust me

    a drum is a big outlay to most people, especially when building the pond as well. so a lot end up upgrading later
    but i wish i could have done my build slower and got it right first time, but i wouldn't have a pond at all if i'd have waited for that...

    so i'm doing it the hard way...twice...
    ...and looking after fish in a framed swimming pool while i'm doing it...

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  19. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    struggling with spending this amount of money on my mere 1000 Gallons
    A Draco MInima should handle a 1000 gallons.

    Are you tight for space? If you can build the pond with an extra section at one end to install anoxic baskets all you need is mechanical filtration, so a small drum with no bio section.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I strongly suspect the QK 25 would only handle 15k lph if it had the same mesh size. Personally I would go with the QK 15 for maximum water clarity.

    However other opinions may differ. I had a conversation with Tony from Draco about upgrading my Draco drum due to the very high wash frequency (every 6 minutes). He recommended I save my money and buy a replacement mesh that would increase from the current 58 micron to a 77 micron mesh and this would significantly increase the flow rate, significantly reduce the amount of time the drum cleans, yet I'd be hard pushed to notice the difference in water quality.

    In fact these are some of his exact words:

    "Even a 77 micron screen change will boost it's overall flow rate to 15000 lph whilst increasing mean time between washes. Difference in water quality between 58 and 77? Zero. It just takes slightly longer to clean an already dirty pond with a 77, though the 77 is less robust than the 58, we've not had one split or bust yet."


    Alternative products available for 1000 gallons would be the Draco Minima as Jampot mentioned, which has the benefit of being an all in one filter due to its inbuilt bio chamber and still comes out cheaper then the QK standaolone drums. However I understand it will only hold 40 litres of bio and (in my experience, but it really does vary pond to pond) this amount would probably only handle 4 or 5 good sized Koi.

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  23. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    I strongly suspect the QK 25 would only handle 15k lph if it had the same mesh size. Personally I would go with the QK 15 for maximum water clarity.

    However other opinions may differ. I had a conversation with Tony from Draco about upgrading my Draco drum due to the very high wash frequency (every 6 minutes). He recommended I save my money and buy a replacement mesh that would increase from the current 58 micron to a 77 micron mesh and this would significantly increase the flow rate, significantly reduce the amount of time the drum cleans, yet I'd be hard pushed to notice the difference in water quality.

    In fact these are some of his exact words:

    "Even a 77 micron screen change will boost it's overall flow rate to 15000 lph whilst increasing mean time between washes. Difference in water quality between 58 and 77? Zero. It just takes slightly longer to clean an already dirty pond with a 77, though the 77 is less robust than the 58, we've not had one split or bust yet."


    Alternative products available for 1000 gallons would be the Draco Minima as Jampot mentioned, which has the benefit of being an all in one filter due to its inbuilt bio chamber and still comes out cheaper then the QK standaolone drums. However I understand it will only hold 40 litres of bio and (in my experience, but it really does vary pond to pond) this amount would probably only handle 4 or 5 good sized Koi.
    i think a QK25 with 70 micron screen would be the same as the old QK22 at 22,000 lph at 70 micron.
    the dimensional scale drawings show the drum size to be identical...just the cabinet size slightly smaller.

    i've been in contact with Patrick Clignet at DVS filtertechniek who make the QK filters for the UK.
    voicing my concerns about the change from 70 to 120 micron mesh.

    and he said that they have been testing different micron screens, and found that there is no real world discernable difference in filtration between 70 micron and 120 micron in a drum of that size.
    and an added benefit is the thread diameter of the 120 micron screen is 90 micron, verses 60 micron for the 70 micron screen, making the 120 micron screen stronger.

    i've done some research thinking about mesh logically in use. and also from my own observations in ducted air filtration.
    as dirty water with particles of a wide range of sizes passes across the screen it will collect particles, and they will partially restrict the hole diameter, trapping smaller particles than the 120 micron mesh size.
    until it runs a cleaning cycle, and then starts the process again.

    and i've noticed that another manufacturer seem to be offering 120 micron as standard some with an option for 70 micron. the Air Aqua 50/120

    https://www.hungrykoi.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=174

    so maybe the real world performance difference between a 70 micron and 120 micron mesh is not so much...?





    Help me decide please - Queni Drum QK15 or QK25-screenshot_2021-03-20-qk25-drawings-pdf

    Help me decide please - Queni Drum QK15 or QK25-screenshot_2021-03-20-revit-tekeningen-trommel





    it's a pity you don't get equipment reviews

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  25. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]so maybe the real world performance difference between a 70 micron and 120 micron mesh is not so much...?[/QUOTE

    I can see the logic in that. Frequency of washing would then be down to the area of screen through which the water is passing, and the rate of flow of course.

    Funny how in so many things, a good big 'un beats a good little 'un;-)

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  27. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai Markl's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for your really helpful comments, suggestions and information.

    I've been thinking about this so much that i'm doing my own head in!

    I think for this year I am going to have to put on hold the upgrade, as much as I would love a drum, I really can't justify the £1500 ish at present and will have to carry on cleaning my multi bay.

    If anyone has any good ideas on how to best utilise a multibay with keeping the weekly maintenance down to a minimum, i'm all ears!

    Thanks again all,

    Mark

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  29. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Add a sieve first?

  30. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markl View Post
    Thanks everyone for your really helpful comments, suggestions and information.

    I've been thinking about this so much that i'm doing my own head in!

    I think for this year I am going to have to put on hold the upgrade, as much as I would love a drum, I really can't justify the £1500 ish at present and will have to carry on cleaning my multi bay.

    If anyone has any good ideas on how to best utilise a multibay with keeping the weekly maintenance down to a minimum, i'm all ears!

    Thanks again all,

    Mark
    i tell you how i keep my filters mainly clean

    i pull most of the water from the skimmer line, and throttle the bottom drain down,
    so enough goes into the bottom drain to pull the crap out of the pond but it settles along the bottom drain, making the whole pond a settlement chamber.

    then i just purge the bottom drain line direct to waste and 95% of all the S*** goes straight to waste without going into the filters...
    you still get some crap from the skimmer line but S*** sinks and most goes into the BD
    Last edited by davethefish1; 22-03-2021 at 10:37 PM.

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  32. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Definitely interesting reading about the micron sizing.

    I got a Draco Solum 16 for a 13k litre pond and it's not up to to he job. It's constantly cleaning in the summer. Really wish I went for the 25 now.

    I spent ages deciding on a drum and still got it wrong lol.

    Going up a size in mesh without it affecting the water quality sounds pretty good to me. Is it hard to replace a mesh?

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  34. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Definitely interesting reading about the micron sizing.

    I got a Draco Solum 16 for a 13k litre pond and it's not up to to he job. It's constantly cleaning in the summer. Really wish I went for the 25 now.

    I spent ages deciding on a drum and still got it wrong lol.

    Going up a size in mesh without it affecting the water quality sounds pretty good to me. Is it hard to replace a mesh?

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    I think the dracos are just mesh. Where as a lot of others use manufactured screens where the support is bonded to the mesh.
    So the draco should be a reasonably cheap price.
    Where as the manufactured screens can run from £250 up

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  36. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai davec's Avatar
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    I ran a QK 15 now run the 25 and my waters just a good if not better with the 25


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  38. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec View Post
    I ran a QK 15 now run the 25 and my waters just a good if not better with the 25


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    unless my sight is getting real bad in my old age
    the water clarity with my QK25 is fine and i chucked a load of dirty mature K1 micro media in when i moved the fish back...
    that clouded the water so bad i could barely see any fish

    few hours later it was gin clear....





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