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  1. #41
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Hopefully no leaks on all the kit


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  2. #42
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Quick update - Took delivery of my drum last week, have ordered all pipe work and will be completing a dry fit in the garage to ensure all levels, pipes etc align before the swap put early next year.

    I know you all know what drums look like but here she is.

    Will be buying a bakki shower also for extra bio.





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  4. #43
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom G20 View Post
    Quick update - Took delivery of my drum last week, have ordered all pipe work and will be completing a dry fit in the garage to ensure all levels, pipes etc align before the swap put early next year.

    I know you all know what drums look like but here she is.

    Will be buying a bakki shower also for extra bio.





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    fantastic looking piece of kit
    you must be very happy with that.

    i'd be really interested to know the length and diameter of the drum screen.
    and what size the bio is?

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  6. #44
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    fantastic looking piece of kit
    you must be very happy with that.

    i'd be really interested to know the length and diameter of the drum screen.
    and what size the bio is?
    Thank you Dave! Very happy, so happy in fact I find myself taking extra trips to the garage just to have another cheeky look!

    Iíll see if I can get the diameter of the drum screen for you.

    Bio is 70 x 70 x 80 - so should get 200L of k1 moving well in there hopefully.


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  8. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Did a quick dry fit with pipe work this afternoon - levels align with water etc and will have plenty of room between drum and bio to set up the high pressure water pump


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  10. #46
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Above picture shows 2 feeds into the bio chamber as was planning of running a shower after the bio.

    However after further consideration one inlet to bio will be blanked off and the second outlet from the drum will feed my new shower from my 20000 vario.

    So Iíll have 10000 lph pump on bio and 20000 on shower all fed through the drum.

    Pond is 20000 so decent turn over - obviously losing some flow when factoring in pipe work and bends etc.

    Going to go with k+ media and CSM from Queni I reckon.


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  12. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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  14. #48
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom G20 View Post



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    nice size shower,
    how many boxes of CSM will you get in there?
    your QK35 will easily cope with 10,000 and 20,000 pumps after losses,

    i'm running my QK25 on a 30,000 to the shower, and 20,000 from the bio.

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  16. #49
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    nice size shower,
    how many boxes of CSM will you get in there?
    your QK35 will easily cope with 10,000 and 20,000 pumps after losses,

    i'm running my QK25 on a 30,000 to the shower, and 20,000 from the bio.
    Thanks Dave! Not entirely sure to be honest Iíll probably start with 3-4 boxes and see where that leaves me!

    Wow thatís some serious flow are they on full whack?

    May even get a second 20000 vario then can always reduce flow on them if required.

    Just want to give the water in the bio decent time for contact before pumping out. Guessing you donít have issues with this if running 20000 from bio?


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  17. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom G20 View Post
    Thanks Dave! Not entirely sure to be honest I’ll probably start with 3-4 boxes and see where that leaves me!

    Wow that’s some serious flow are they on full whack?

    May even get a second 20000 vario then can always reduce flow on them if required.

    Just want to give the water in the bio decent time for contact before pumping out. Guessing you don’t have issues with this if running 20000 from bio?


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    no they are not on full whack,
    due in part to heat issues all wet impellor pumps have if they are run full tilt, that can suffer from cacification.

    there is a world of difference between what a 30,000 or 20,000 lph pump is rated at, and what it water it actually moves in the real world.
    the aqua forte 20,000 vario i'm running from my bio is at 60% @ 104 watts.
    so given there is Zero head height lift, and it's in 2" pressure pipe you'd think it's moving around 10-12,000 lph...?
    i measured the actual output with a bucket and timer....5,000 lph....
    less than half the output lost just due to pipe resistance...

    the aqua forte 30,000 vario-s shower pump isn't so bad,
    due to running that pipework in 3" pressure and it is only 1.3 meters of actual pipe meaning the pipe work losses are much lower.
    but thats at 70% @ 240watts and does an actual output of 18,000 lph...

    this article opens you eyes to pipework losses and optimal pipe sizes for actual output (p69)
    https://koinet.co.uk/koi-net/issue-3...ndex.html#p=68

    Last edited by davethefish1; 15-01-2022 at 02:37 PM.

  18. #51
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    no they are not on full whack,
    due in part to heat issues all wet impellor pumps have if they are run full tilt, that can suffer from cacification.

    there is a world of difference between what a 30,000 or 20,000 lph pump is rated at, and what it water it actually moves in the real world.
    the aqua forte 20,000 vario i'm running from my bio is at 60% @ 104 watts.
    so given there is Zero head height lift, and it's in 2" pressure pipe you'd think it's moving around 10-12,000 lph...?
    i measured the actual output with a bucket and timer....5,000 lph....
    less than half the output lost just due to pipe resistance...

    the aqua forte 30,000 vario-s shower pump isn't so bad,
    due to running that pipework in 3" pressure and it is only 1.3 meters of actual pipe meaning the pipe work losses are much lower.
    but thats at 70% @ 240watts and does an actual output of 18,000 lph...

    this article opens you eyes to pipework losses and optimal pipe sizes for actual output (p69)
    https://koinet.co.uk/koi-net/issue-3...ndex.html#p=68

    Insane just how much lph we lose in what we would assume is a short run of pipe with little to no head loss!

    Iíll buy the 30,000 vario then. So Iíll have a 20,000 on the bio and a 30,000 on shower. Not copying at all promise haha

    Thank you for the information though, I really want to do this and get it right as hopefully with the equipment I have ready to go in there will be no need to add anything else.

    Although I do still have space etc to add an extra bio chamber if later down the line I really really need to or an extra tier on my shower for extra bio.


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  20. #52
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom G20 View Post
    Insane just how much lph we lose in what we would assume is a short run of pipe with little to no head loss!

    I’ll buy the 30,000 vario then. So I’ll have a 20,000 on the bio and a 30,000 on shower. Not copying at all promise haha

    Thank you for the information though, I really want to do this and get it right as hopefully with the equipment I have ready to go in there will be no need to add anything else.

    Although I do still have space etc to add an extra bio chamber if later down the line I really really need to or an extra tier on my shower for extra bio.


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    up to you what lph you run at
    if you already have the 10,000 and 20,000 you could try them first and see how it goes.
    i still have my 10,000 vario as a back up pump...

    but be aware of the pipe size in your shower,
    i don't know the maximum rating of your shower, but the QK maxi is rated up to 40,000 lph
    i had a difficult choice regarding pipe size... 2" is restricted approaching 20,000 lph
    and i really only needed to run 2.5" for 18,000 lph, but it is a funny size trying to get fittings for as it's not commonly used in koi keeping.
    so i ended up getting 3" pressure a little over rated but massively reduces restriction.

    but running larger diameter pipes, and pumps slower, will reap benefits of better lph/watt,
    and reduce the chance of calcification due to the heat generated by the stator.

    but with 4,000 gallons you want at least 18,000 lph actual turnover on the shower imo.
    and a 20,000 won't do it....
    Last edited by davethefish1; 15-01-2022 at 10:50 PM.

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  22. #53
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    up to you what lph you run at
    if you already have the 10,000 and 20,000 you could try them first and see how it goes.
    i still have my 10,000 vario as a back up pump...

    but be aware of the pipe size in your shower,
    i don't know the maximum rating of your shower, but the QK maxi is rated up to 40,000 lph
    i had a difficult choice regarding pipe size... 2" is restriced approaching 20,000 lph
    and i really only needed to run 2.5" for 18,000 lph, but it is a funny size trying to get fittings for as it's not commonly used in koi keeping.
    so i ended up getting 3" pressure a little over rated but massively reduces restriction.

    but running larger diameter pipes, and pumps slower, will reap benefits of better lph/watt,
    and reduce the chance of calcification due to the heat generated by the stator.

    but with 4,000 gallons you want at least 18,000 lph actual turnover on the shower imo.
    and a 20,000 won't do it....
    Yeah Iíll be going the 30,000 like you say I want as close to 20,000 running through the shower as possible so makes sense! And at least Iíll have a back up pump if one gives up the good fight!

    So excited to get this all done. Aiming to have the old out and new in by May as not going to start when the weather is so bitterly cold


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  24. #54
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom G20 View Post
    Yeah I’ll be going the 30,000 like you say I want as close to 20,000 running through the shower as possible so makes sense! And at least I’ll have a back up pump if one gives up the good fight!

    So excited to get this all done. Aiming to have the old out and new in by May as not going to start when the weather is so bitterly cold


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    i said the same last year...start april finish before june....
    started end of april getting the fish out and temporary pond set up.

    barely got the pond finished by september...
    took a lot longer than i thought...
    but it was worth it to get it how i wanted it....

  25. #55
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i said the same last year...start april finish before june....
    started end of april getting the fish out and temporary pond set up.

    barely got the pond finished by september...
    took a lot longer than i thought...
    but it was worth it to get it how i wanted it....
    Haha we are very optimistic arenít we with our ponds. But 5 months isnít too much of an investment when you think youíve got your pond how you want it for hopefully a few years at least hah.

    Got some serious graft to do, but going to try and enjoy it.


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  26. #56
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    up to you what lph you run at
    if you already have the 10,000 and 20,000 you could try them first and see how it goes.
    i still have my 10,000 vario as a back up pump...

    but be aware of the pipe size in your shower,
    i don't know the maximum rating of your shower, but the QK maxi is rated up to 40,000 lph
    i had a difficult choice regarding pipe size... 2" is restricted approaching 20,000 lph
    and i really only needed to run 2.5" for 18,000 lph, but it is a funny size trying to get fittings for as it's not commonly used in koi keeping.
    so i ended up getting 3" pressure a little over rated but massively reduces restriction.

    but running larger diameter pipes, and pumps slower, will reap benefits of better lph/watt,
    and reduce the chance of calcification due to the heat generated by the stator.

    but with 4,000 gallons you want at least 18,000 lph actual turnover on the shower imo.
    and a 20,000 won't do it....
    I found two places that are very good:
    * https://www.plasticpipeshop.co.uk. (scotland)
    * Plastic|Sheet|Welding|Fabrications|Hendersons|UK. (norfolk)

    The plastic pipe shop is very fast and efficient. Hendersons is good - the larger stuff (all my big 110mm pipe and elbows).

    I went metric with all my piping if I could get away with it. This is because the mm is the outside measurement and makes getting fittings easier - 110mm for the main water pipework, then 32mm for the air, the odd one out is the 2"/63mm for a pumped waterfall line which fits the 20,000lph variable pump that will sit on the end of it (not very eco but there you have it).

    I deliberately used two returns of 110mm, kept all the water pipework as 110mm and didn't use elbows but bends for the pipework. All to keep the resistance to a minimum.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Eco Pond 2.0: 13,000 litres, 58W airlifts, 1300l anoxic, Solum 16. No pump.

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  28. #57
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    I found two places that are very good:
    * https://www.plasticpipeshop.co.uk. (scotland)
    * Plastic|Sheet|Welding|Fabrications|Hendersons|UK. (norfolk)

    The plastic pipe shop is very fast and efficient. Hendersons is good - the larger stuff (all my big 110mm pipe and elbows).

    I went metric with all my piping if I could get away with it. This is because the mm is the outside measurement and makes getting fittings easier - 110mm for the main water pipework, then 32mm for the air, the odd one out is the 2"/63mm for a pumped waterfall line which fits the 20,000lph variable pump that will sit on the end of it (not very eco but there you have it).

    I deliberately used two returns of 110mm, kept all the water pipework as 110mm and didn't use elbows but bends for the pipework. All to keep the resistance to a minimum.
    Thank you for the links and details Nick. Going to be as efficient as possible at least then pumps arenít going to be maxed out all the time with diminishing return!


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  29. #58
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    but with 4,000 gallons you want at least 18,000 lph actual turnover on the shower imo. and a 20,000 won't do it....
    18,000lph is a 4"/110mm realistic flow rate in a gravity fed system, minus the odd plumbing.

    That's a lot of water!
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Eco Pond 2.0: 13,000 litres, 58W airlifts, 1300l anoxic, Solum 16. No pump.

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  31. #59
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Dom G20's Avatar
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    EA 30000 vario ordered along with 3 boxes of Queniís CSM and more k+ media

    Final few bits now - got my over flow/auto top up ready just need to lay the mdpe.

    Wonít be long until I start stripping out the old and in with the new


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  33. #60
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Very smart equipment upgrade Dom, be good to see it all in situ..
    2200 gallons, infinity window, BD
    Evolve 4000 combi amalgam UV
    10k,20k AF pumps
    Skimmer trickle.

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