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  1. #1

    Drum not Clearing Pond

    My Dracodrum has been in service since 2016 and it has been a huge improvement over the eazy, but this year, after a trip to the factory for new controller and electrics, it never seemed to keep the water as clear as before, and now things have taken a dramatic downward turn. The pond is like soup, I can’t see more than a couple of feet, and the fish are camped on the bottom.. The drum is happily washing as normal every 12-15 minutes as if nothing was wrong, so I figure that the debris was either a) not reaching the drum, or b) passing through it. I rodded the bottom drain and confirmed that it was clear, I turned to the drum, thoroughly inspected the mesh, no problems there. Dropping the centre section to purge the drain, showed that the water was all passing through the mesh and not bypassing anywhere.
    So now I am stumped, pump working normally and BD is clear, but the drum is washing normal when I would expect almost constant cleaning with the water this bad. The skimmer is doing it’s best but it’s an Eazypod so it can’t perform miracles.
    Thankfully the parameters have remained fairly stable with just a small ph rise to 8.5, and just a trace of ammonia, so I know the bio section is functioning albeit very dirty. Feeding is off but it doesn’t seem to make any difference even if they did want food.
    Any suggestions would be welcome because I’m out of ideas and desperate.
    Mark
    7E1DC208-1B07-42A7-8514-BB9799F5DD89.jpg


    19,000 litres
    Nexus 320 with Dracodrum and submersible UV
    Blue Eco 320
    Eazy Pod on skimmer
    Dura+ 10kW Heat Pump
    15 koi

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KyKoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by balder View Post
    My Dracodrum has been in service since 2016 and it has been a huge improvement over the eazy, but this year, after a trip to the factory for new controller and electrics, it never seemed to keep the water as clear as before, and now things have taken a dramatic downward turn. The pond is like soup, I can’t see more than a couple of feet, and the fish are camped on the bottom.. The drum is happily washing as normal every 12-15 minutes as if nothing was wrong, so I figure that the debris was either a) not reaching the drum, or b) passing through it. I rodded the bottom drain and confirmed that it was clear, I turned to the drum, thoroughly inspected the mesh, no problems there. Dropping the centre section to purge the drain, showed that the water was all passing through the mesh and not bypassing anywhere.
    So now I am stumped, pump working normally and BD is clear, but the drum is washing normal when I would expect almost constant cleaning with the water this bad. The skimmer is doing it’s best but it’s an Eazypod so it can’t perform miracles.
    Thankfully the parameters have remained fairly stable with just a small ph rise to 8.5, and just a trace of ammonia, so I know the bio section is functioning albeit very dirty. Feeding is off but it doesn’t seem to make any difference even if they did want food.
    Any suggestions would be welcome because I’m out of ideas and desperate.
    Mark
    7E1DC208-1B07-42A7-8514-BB9799F5DD89.jpg
    UV gone? Sounds like something fishy going on. (No pun intended)

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    It isn’t algae build up, maybe uv bulb blown? Drum won’t remove algae unless it’s been zapped by the uv

  5. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Djstiles999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyKoi View Post
    UV gone? Sounds like something fishy going on. (No pun intended)
    Great minds eh

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  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KyKoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djstiles999 View Post
    Great minds eh
    Seems like the only culprit at the moment. Is it fines or just off colour. Looks green which would indicate algae therefor UV

  8. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Just take a glass from the clean side of the drum.

    It can be that the pond algae is blooming faster than the turn over of water through the drum.

    You could shade 1/2 the pond and see if it clears up.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

  9. #7
    Thanks guys, but in person, the water looks more brown than green, plus when I’ve had green water in the past, the koi were fine with it, whereas now, they’re stuck on the bottom. Tested this morning, ammonia is back to zero but ph is still a little high.
    I’m pretty sure uv is working, it lights up and it’s a submersible amalgam lamp with only 6 months on it, but as the general consensus seems to point to the uv, I’m going to go with that. I’ve added an extra 80w to the pond, so that’s 120w in total. If the problem is algae, that should have a noticeable effect in a couple of days, and I’m going to feel a bit foolish for missing the bleedin’ obvious and stressing myself and koi over a simple (but not cheap) light bulb. We will see.
    Mark
    19,000 litres
    Nexus 320 with Dracodrum and submersible UV
    Blue Eco 320
    Eazy Pod on skimmer
    Dura+ 10kW Heat Pump
    15 koi

  10. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Scamp's Avatar
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    Hi Mark if its brown could be protein build up? Do you have any foam or surface scum as well? Any change of food etc? Cheers

  11. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Brown is often Tanin from decomposing organic matter or I found that some foods also turn the water brown.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

  12. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai JimJones's Avatar
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    Check the seals around the drum

    I had this problem. There was a tiny gap between the drum case and seal which was letting little bits of muck through with each wash and even when the drum just sat there

    Jim

  13. #11
    OK, the culprit definitely seems to be the uv. The lamp is lit but it’s obviously no longer effective. Yesterday, I couldn’t see even a trace of a fish, the water was pea soup, but with a spare T5 submersible (my backup), and a 55w Yamitsu on a spare pump, the pond was definitely a little clearer this morning and some fish were on the surface.. However, as soon as the sun hit the water all the gains were lost. In this weather, I’m never going to clear it without covering up, and would you believe it, my tarpaulin is now acting as a groundsheet under 4000 litres of water I am preparing for a large water change. I cannot get another until late tomorrow, so it’ll be Wednesday before I can start to see any improvement. I just hope my koi are ok and will forgive me when all this is over.
    Mark
    7FB8F5D1-5624-41E8-B267-A54503CCF2A4.jpg
    19,000 litres
    Nexus 320 with Dracodrum and submersible UV
    Blue Eco 320
    Eazy Pod on skimmer
    Dura+ 10kW Heat Pump
    15 koi

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  15. #12
    Just a thought what's your nitrate level in the pond, Could it be a water change problem?

  16. #13
    I run a trickle in around 20% per week. I don’t regularly check for nitrates, but I know it runs at a fairly high level, however when I tested at the weekend it was the lowest I’ve ever seen it, even lower than my tap water. So although a failed uv was the probably cause, high nitrates certainly made it worse.
    19,000 litres
    Nexus 320 with Dracodrum and submersible UV
    Blue Eco 320
    Eazy Pod on skimmer
    Dura+ 10kW Heat Pump
    15 koi

  17. #14
    What a difference,
    Attachment 37726
    I’ve had the 40w submersible uv for over 4 years and it has always kept the water clear, but clearing a pond with an established algae bloom is an entirely different matter, especially if you have a high nitrate level. Over 100w of uv power, tarp over the top, plus several mega water changes and it still took over two weeks to get it back to normal. The cloudy weather came at the right time too, I don’t think I would ever clear it with constant all day sun as we were having. Also, the algae must have stripping the oxygen from the water, when the stormy weather started, all the koi were coming up for air, I had to add two more air pumps with multiple stones just trying to keep them alive.
    I am so glad I kept hold of my old equipment, spare air pumps, water pumps 55w uv, and a temporary pool to hold the water. They were just taking up space in the shed for years and I was going to sell them on but I just never got round to it
    I turns out that the uv glass was full of water, to the extent that the entire lamp up to the contacts was submerged. I don’t know how it kept working but it was, just not effectively. The adhesive fixing the plastic ring to the glass was leaking and because it was full to the top, it looked empty and I didn’t even realize. This probably explains why the new ‘super’ model has the glass and lamp as a single sealed unit, and now recommend that the older design is not full submerged. There is also a digital lamp timer on the main unit. I’m just glad this problem is behind me, bring on the next one.
    Mark
    19,000 litres
    Nexus 320 with Dracodrum and submersible UV
    Blue Eco 320
    Eazy Pod on skimmer
    Dura+ 10kW Heat Pump
    15 koi

  18. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Fine brown tends to either be:
    * organic matter - ie waste smaller than the drum
    * tannins released by decaying organic matter/food colouring etc

    I naturally have a bit of brown in my original pond given it has a full and mature ecosystem with ponds.

    Organics are simply that - food/waste/plants/dead algae/dead string algae etc etc all will breakup into small pieces. If you look under the microscope for fish diagnosis that shows pieces of organic matter.

    Tannins (like tea) are very small - smaller than any drum will take out. Instead you're looking at reverse osmosis filtering or removing the source of the tannin and then letting it be slowly removed by water replacements.

    A flocculant such as pond clear may help as a one time organic-removing solution. It essentially makes the fine particles stick together (most are made up of formaldehyde so clear some water after for your safety). Pond Clear is one of the only Blagdon products that seems todo what it says on the tin and works not only with small algae but also small organics. It clumps them together and our drum will take it out. Works well on blooms but you need to treat the source of the problem.


    EDIT: just read your last posts. Sounds like you have got to the bottom of the problem. Dealing with algae is relatively simple - you need to focus on the cause (nitrate and sunlight is it's food) rather than the temporary fix (UV).

    I've been running no UV for almost two years and I don't do a trickle replacement. Even with the high UV sun - no bloom. The Draco goes nuts with the algae due to it's small drum mesh aperture size but the biggest things are
    (a) plants taking the nitrogen (nitrites/nitrates) - we get big lilies, irises, stink cabbages etc. We do get some string algae but I wait then take it out as it's using up the nitrogen.
    (b) lillies provide shade reducing the light in the pond.
    (c) fine drum takes a large amount of algae, any waste and food before it starts breaking down and releasing nitrogen (nitrates).

    The new pond won't have the eco system in the same way. Instead it will have anoxic filtration - straight to N2 gas essentially thus starving algae etc. I don't currently plan to run a full UV but if needed then I will simply run a solar powered UV. Given the water will be UV'd at least a couple of times during the day when the growth occurs.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

 

 

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