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Thread: Cat litter

  1. #1

    Cat litter

    Hi guys, help me out.

    I've read Mankys section on anoxic filtration over and over, and can't find a reason for using cat litter.

    Does the material need to be some specific type to react with the core to create the specific effect?

    Or is it simply there to stop the core being washed away, in which case, why can't I use anything, such as pea gravel?

    I read so many post on here of people using so many different brands of cat litter, one person even used Zeolite and said it's working perfectly. Manly suggest as an alternative to use bonsai soil additive, which is clay. I've found some, but from the description it sounds as though it's baked hard, sounds perfect for not clumping and not dissolving away, but I'm not sure it's the correct stuff.

    Can someone explain this in simple terms, and tell me what I need.

    Cheers,

    Jay

    Ps. Can anyone explain why there isn't a rule as to how much core to put with how much outer, I can't find this anywhere.



  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Megson View Post
    Hi guys, help me out.

    I've read Mankys section on anoxic filtration over and over, and can't find a reason for using cat litter.

    Does the material need to be some specific type to react with the core to create the specific effect?

    Or is it simply there to stop the core being washed away, in which case, why can't I use anything, such as pea gravel?

    I read so many post on here of people using so many different brands of cat litter, one person even used Zeolite and said it's working perfectly. Manly suggest as an alternative to use bonsai soil additive, which is clay. I've found some, but from the description it sounds as though it's baked hard, sounds perfect for not clumping and not dissolving away, but I'm not sure it's the correct stuff.

    Can someone explain this in simple terms, and tell me what I need.

    Cheers,

    Jay

    Ps. Can anyone explain why there isn't a rule as to how much core to put with how much outer, I can't find this anywhere.
    The baskets must use clay granules due to the (negative?) Charge they have that attracts ammonia into the baskets

    Cat litter is the cheapest way to obtain this but must be a litter that is pure clay without any other additives.

    Sanicat classic is made from pure sepiolite clay so that is a popular option, as are cat litters made of pure Danish pink moler clay which are hard to find but you can purchase this type of clay in graded form (no dust) from bonsai suppliers.

    You are correct there is no precise measurement listed for the amount of laterite, or aquabasis (easier to obtain in UK) to be used, but I think 200 - 300 grams is an accepted amount, or do what I did by filling tights with a tennis ball sized amount.

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  4. #3
    Yes I agree and the electrostatic charges that build in cat litter or one of the recommended substitutes are negative.

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  6. #4
    Hi guys,

    Thanks for the replies.

    So to summarise, it needs to be clay, but can be any type of clay that can remain under water without dissolving or clumping?

    So I've found these, will they work? https://groworks.co.uk/products/clay...hoCUR0QAvD_BwE

    As for the amount of core, I assume the more the merrier? So I'm what will be 30cm baskets, I'm intending to use 400g. Does that sound ok?

    Rs, I'm sure I've read negative things about that sepiolite clay on here, but I've read so much over the last few days that I can't remember what it was.

    Thanks again,

    Jay

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  8. #5
    Jay, 400 grams is ok for that size basket and, in the article, I've listed five alternative to cat litter and described the simple test to see if a cat litter (or other media) is suitable:
    Anoxic Filtration (mankysanke.co.uk)

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  10. #6
    Hi Manky,

    I've looked for the alternatives, and they are hard to find too, and the link I sent is what came up when I searched for one of the alternatives.

    I'm trying to understand the principal behind the outer (kitty litter) so I can find work out if the alternatives I've found are viable.

    Knowing it has to be a type of clay is what I needed to know.

    So the link I sent is for the stuff that Bonsai people use, but it says it has been kiln dried and is dust free, so will this work? It obviously won't soften or dissolve.

    Jason

  11. #7
    Have a read through the threads by me and RS2000, lots of useful information gained on there.
    I used a coffee mug full of Aquabasis per basket which made an orange sized ball.


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  13. #8
    I think I've read everything on here about it, but as I said earlier it's fried me brain.

    I want clear cut, use this amount of this. But as is always the way on forums there are a lot of opinions, and hearsay.

    Can you post me a link to your thread just in case I have missed it and I'll have a read through.

    Cheers,

    Jay

  14. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Megson View Post
    Hi Manky,

    I've looked for the alternatives, and they are hard to find too, and the link I sent is what came up when I searched for one of the alternatives.

    I'm trying to understand the principal behind the outer (kitty litter) so I can find work out if the alternatives I've found are viable.

    Knowing it has to be a type of clay is what I needed to know.

    So the link I sent is for the stuff that Bonsai people use, but it says it has been kiln dried and is dust free, so will this work? It obviously won't soften or dissolve.

    Jason

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Megson View Post
    I think I've read everything on here about it, but as I said earlier it's fried me brain.

    I want clear cut, use this amount of this. But as is always the way on forums there are a lot of opinions, and hearsay.

    Can you post me a link to your thread just in case I have missed it and I'll have a read through.

    Cheers,

    Jay
    At 8 -10 mm, the pebbles in that bonsai media are much too large. Cat litter is so much more suitable. Why not test a few granules of the brands of cat litter that you have available in your area?

    Kevin Novak spent several years researching and refining anoxic filtration before making the design public and, when I first heard his web audio interview and got involved in helping him promote it, I set up a test pond and tested different types of baskets to death. I frequently see contradictory posts on Social Media where people who have never tested or built one have different theories and modifications so I suggest that prospective users either stick to Kevin's CD or my article or, alternatively, copy what is known to have worked for a user who has had success such as Gary (BCC).

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  16. #10
    Can I ask a direct question then.

    Can you list the different clays I need to look for on the back of the cat litter pack.

    I'm assuming the issue with the size of the pebbles is that the gap may allow the core to be washed out?

    Cheers,

    Jason

  17. #11

    Cat litter

    Jase, do a search mate, its been done to death on here.
    Im only on my mobile as Im away atm else Id post some links up for you


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  18. #12
    I made up my biocenesis baskets just last month.

    Sanicat Pink for the outer layer and Aquabasis plus for the core.
    Sanicat Pink is available everywhere in the UK and is really quite cheap and Aquabasis is easily found online.
    I didn't spend hours washing the Sanicat, just a good dunk in a sieve before filling the basket. Grain size did vary slightly between bags, but all was well within tolerance and there was very little waste.
    I will say again, the amounts really aren't critical as we aren't carrying out molar (as opposed to moler ) yield analysis, just providing the right overall local environment.
    So, as has also been said repeatedly, about a fist sized core of Aquabasis in the middle of Sanicat Pink in a roughly 30X30X20cm basket.
    Et voila....

    My DIY ponds from 1988 until present day.
    All can be found here:
    https://www.ukzero.com/pond.htm

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  20. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ukzero View Post
    I made up my biocenesis baskets just last month.

    Sanicat Pink for the outer layer and Aquabasis plus for the core.
    Sanicat Pink is available everywhere in the UK and is really quite cheap and Aquabasis is easily found online.
    I didn't spend hours washing the Sanicat, just a good dunk in a sieve before filling the basket. Grain size did vary slightly between bags, but all was well within tolerance and there was very little waste.
    I will say again, the amounts really aren't critical as we aren't carrying out molar (as opposed to moler ) yield analysis, just providing the right overall local environment.
    So, as has also been said repeatedly, about a fist sized core of Aquabasis in the middle of Sanicat Pink in a roughly 30X30X20cm basket.
    Et voila....

    Sanicat pink has just been rebranded to Kitty Friend Pink. You can make 3 large baskets per 30Litre bag. As UKzero said a quick rinse is all thats needed. I didnt go to town. I bought some 2 weeks ago and no issues. I currently have 44 baskets in a 1000 Litre IBC

    https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/p...itter-30-litre

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  22. #14
    Hey guys,

    That's really positive about the Sanicat being available in this country and being the right stuff.

    Thanks for all your input, I feel I'm ready to get cracking now.

    Thanks again,

    Jay

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  24. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    I used a coffee mug full of Aquabasis per basket which made an orange sized ball.


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    Oranges, Tennis balls, huge plums, it is all so confusing

  25. #16
    I'm easily confused too.

  26. #17
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    If you search you will find cheaper alternatives, but this graded stuff is the correct stuff and a quick rinse and your done:

    https://www.kaizenbonsai.com/moler-m...-growing-media


    Alternatively if you have many hours to spare washing and filtering the dust out, then this stuff will do the job. It is Spanish Sepiolite Clay and cleaning it is the only real negative, once its in the baskets it is perfect (It has been re-branded but supposedly the same stuff as the Sanicat Classic most of us on here bought, might be worth buying a damaged bag cheap off eBay before commiting to a bulk purchase from here:

    https://m.pets-pantry.com/tolsa-uk-c...itter-30-litre

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  28. #18
    That's really good of you, I think I'll go with your first link as I'm lazy, and cannot be bothered spending hours washing dust off of clay.

    Thanks.

  29. #19
    With the Kitty Friend Pink i literally half filled a basket rinsed for about a min, then filled to the top and rinsed some more. Literally made 3 baskets in 10min. I wouldnt be spending any longer than that. Its also 12.50 for 30litres so half the price of the bonsai stuff.

  30. #20
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    I went with the Kanzai Bonsai stuff based on RS2000's earlier posts but instead of washing it I rattled it in a fine garden sieve to get the dust off - worked well.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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