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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    New Pond Fitration Decisions

    Hi,

    I am planning a new pond (my first proper one) and am struggling to make my mind up on the best filter set-up for my needs and of course water quality/clarity.

    The pond will be circa 3000 gallons and after seeing videos of numerous pond builds and set-ups thought that a nexus 220 would be the way to go. However, I have also seen a couple of videos where some folks have swapped them out for drum/combi filters but I have been told by a local dealer that they are unreliable and the motors are expensive to replace. The dealer is an EA stockist so I guess he has a biased view and he recommended the Nexus 320 with a Tempest on the skimmer line returning via a blade. I am fitting an airated bottom drain.

    My filter house will be a pit style dug into the ground so access is not quite as easy as walking into a shed. It sounds like drum-combi's are slightly lower maintenance so this is appealing although the Nexus has the auto clean system option.
    In theory a drum sounds better as it removes solids from the system quicker than a Nexus where they will dwell in the Eazy (I think) until flushed away. The Nexus however, seems very popular so I assume they are good.

    The less it costs the better of course but my priority is to go in the right direction as opposed to a tight budget.

    I appreciate that there will be many different views on this so apologies if this is a stupid question but I am on a steep learning curve and my brain is mashed with the options

    Thanks



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Steve1984's Avatar
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    If it helps I run a sieve and bead on my system which I put on due to the expense of the drum filter. I'm now on my second pond as I moved shortly after completing the first build. I'm saving up to change my system to a drum mainly due to the convenience and reading other people's comments on the forum. If I had the cash during my second build that would have been the one piece of equipment I would have swapped over.

    That being said the system I have works and does the job it just requires more maintenance. I'm sure someone with more experience with both types of systems will be able to give to you pro's and con's of each to help you decide

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  4. #3
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I would go straight for a drum if I were you. Lots of people upgrade from a Nexus to a drum, but nobody ever does the opposite.

    Just be careful when looking at the combi units that the bio side is big enough. It can be a cheaper and better option to buy the drum as a separate item and then make a larger DIY moving bed filter to follow it. The moving bed itself doesn’t have to be expensive, and there are home made in a barrel options that will actually work just as well as a shop bought moving bed because the technology isnt rocket science, and with a drum filtering out all of the solid waste the moving bed will tend to stay nice and clean. You can go for a shower to follow the drum instead if you’re short of space, as these have a smaller footprint.

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  6. #4
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Appreciate your comments Steve so fair to say you think a drum is the way forward if budget allows. I'm not entirely sure how the bead filters work so need to do a bit more research on them but I know folks tend to put them on a skimmer line so I guess not suitable for solids.

    Thanks again and I hope to get a few more guiding replies in due course as hoping to get it started soon.

  7. #5
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Thanks Feline, very useful comments. How much media do you think I will need for 3000 gallons if I put my skimmer return through a tempest (is this a good option) or can I also just connect my skimmer to the drum etc.? My filter pit will be around 2.5m square so believe I am ok for space. I am trying to avoid the need for a shower at this point. I appreciate that the fish population will ultimately dictate my needs but I only have 6 koi that are pretty small (30cm ish) but will of course be introducing new fish.

    2 replies and both in favour of the drum setup

    Thanks again

  8. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Tosai Deanosbeano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiffy View Post
    Thanks Feline, very useful comments. How much media do you think I will need for 3000 gallons if I put my skimmer return through a tempest (is this a good option) or can I also just connect my skimmer to the drum etc.? My filter pit will be around 2.5m square so believe I am ok for space. I am trying to avoid the need for a shower at this point. I appreciate that the fish population will ultimately dictate my needs but I only have 6 koi that are pretty small (30cm ish) but will of course be introducing new fish.

    2 replies and both in favour of the drum setup

    Thanks again
    Hi Smiffy.I had a nexus 310 on my previous 3300 gallon pond and were constantly battling fines in the water and cleaning it! A lot on here who have a nexus end up dropping a drum in the top eventually.I am currently in the middle of a new pond build and have bought a second hand profi drum off this site for the same price as a nexus 320.There always for sale due to pond closures etc.
    Hope this helps
    Cheers Dean

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  10. #7
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Hi Dean, very helpful and I'm now very glad I joined the forum and asked the question. I will take a look at the articles for sale section to see if anything catches my eye. The Queni Koi kit looks good but a tad pricey!

  11. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Steve1984's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiffy View Post
    Appreciate your comments Steve so fair to say you think a drum is the way forward if budget allows. I'm not entirely sure how the bead filters work so need to do a bit more research on them but I know folks tend to put them on a skimmer line so I guess not suitable for solids.

    Thanks again and I hope to get a few more guiding replies in due course as hoping to get it started soon.
    Thats the route I would take if I could have. The bead I think works as biological media and the sieve is designed to go beforehand to try and remove as many fines as it can. Good luck with the build

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  12. #9
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve

  13. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    I'm local to you and have just recently had my old filtration swapped out for a Filtreau drum/combi. My pond at 8000 litres, is smaller than your proposed build but if you want to come round and view my set up, just ask.

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  15. #11
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Hi g mac, very kind offer and I will take you up on it but be warned, I might bombard you with a trillion questions
    Please send me a PM to arrange and thanks for the kind offer as I don't know anyone who has a pond.

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  17. #12

    New Pond Fitration Decisions

    Hi Smiffy,
    I would recommend going straight to a Drum if funds allow.
    I agree with Feline in that you don’t need a combi as you can make yourself a cheap moving bed filter to go after it.
    I’ve actually got a nexus 200 for my bio as I had that first then added the drum later. It means if the drum ever fails I can just switch to the Nexus as back up.
    You can get a 2nd hand Nexus on eBay for a very reasonable price.
    There is not much that can go wrong with the Nexus so second hand is not a major issue in most cases. It will likely be a bigger footprint than just a moving bed system though.
    If you did decide to go combi Gazkoi on here sells some reasonably priced Filtreau systems via Aurora Koi that would cover 3000 gallons. I and many others on here can vouch for his customer service.
    Cheers
    Ady


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  19. #13
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Hi Ady, comments and advice much appreciated.
    The Nexus as back-up is a good plan but I'm guessing I will need diverter valves on the 4" inlet making the initial install a bit more complicated so will probably go with a basic bio tank. As a starting point what size/how much media should I be looking to go with in the bio and should I allow some overhead for future upgradability?
    Will certainly check out Gazkoi as I like the neatness of a combi if budget allows.
    Should I go for a model that with turn over my pond at least twice an hour such that I have plenty of tinker room or is that overkill?

    Thanks for your help.

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  21. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Always over spec on filtration. The makers are never trustworthy with flow rates and numbers.

    And always plan for future extensions or more fish

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    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  23. #15
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Thanks Jonathan, so if my proposed pond is 13,500 litres will a 30,000 LPH setup be the way to go?

  24. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    What AJM says is true about the claimed flow rates on filters.

    I have a circa 13k litre pond with a 16k lph rated drum and the drum is under rated for what I need it to do. I'd aim for a drum with a claimed flow rate of around 20 - 25k lph in your setup.

    After my drum I have a moving bed filter with 250 litres of k1 type media. This is probably more than enough, but better to have more than not enough.

    The thing to bear in mind for the moving bed is that they should only be filled up to a max of 60% of equivalent litres of media. So for example a container that holds 100 litres of water can only take up to around 60litres of moving bed media. So using a figure of 50% (better to leave a bit of wiggle room) will help you decide how much media you need and how big a moving bed tank needs to be to hold it all.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  26. #17
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Twhitenosugar (just how I drink it!)
    Good to get a feel for the ratios but it sounds like the bio tank can't be too big.

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  28. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    No problem. I remember what it was like planning mine. It's exciting but there are so many questions. The best thing you can do is spend a few months looking at other people's pond builds, see where they wish they'd done stuff differently. After a while this should help you budget for it and sort out the details for what you want to do, so you can get it as right as possible, the first time round.

    I'd say the opposite, it can't be too small. It's better to have k1 (I used biocell media from Coastal koi, it's identical, but cheaper than k1) floating freely in loads of water, rather than cramming so much in it won't move. Remember 60% is the max figure, not the min.

    For a moving bed, it's really about getting the balance between having it big enough that you can have a good amount of media + the option to add more later if needed versus it not being so big that it makes getting everything into your filter pit, pipework, accessing valves etc difficult.

    For your filter pit, make sure you allow for plenty of space for your pipework and valves. These can take up much more space then you may initially realise.

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    Last edited by Twhitenosugar; 27-04-2021 at 10:32 AM.
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  30. #19
    Member Rank = Nisai Smiffy's Avatar
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    I can't deny that I lay awake at night trying to figure it all out, I'll be a wreck before the builders turn up! I have been looking at loads of videos and bought a book to try to get my head around the basics.

    When I say it can't be too big I meant the bio chamber/tank not the actual media. Is it good to have a mix of K1 standard and micro or is 100% micro better? Appreciate the Coastal Koi pointer.
    Fully appreciate the comment about overloading media as seen a couple of videos where there are large dead spots.

    The pond is intended to be 3m x 3m so the pit will be around 2.4m x 2m so will hopefully be suffice and leave some room for upgrades if required?

    Thanks again

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  32. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiffy View Post
    I can't deny that I lay awake at night trying to figure it all out, I'll be a wreck before the builders turn up! I have been looking at loads of videos and bought a book to try to get my head around the basics.

    When I say it can't be too big I meant the bio chamber/tank not the actual media. Is it good to have a mix of K1 standard and micro or is 100% micro better? Appreciate the Coastal Koi pointer.
    Fully appreciate the comment about overloading media as seen a couple of videos where there are large dead spots.

    The pond is intended to be 3m x 3m so the pit will be around 2.4m x 2m so will hopefully be suffice and leave some room for upgrades if required?

    Thanks again
    Think k+ is the new must have media. My understanding is that k1 micro is used to collect fines in a static bay where k1 k+ are more your moving bed media along with helx13.
    Pond pads have a good right up and if numbers are right are far better than k1 but take far far longer to mature and far far more expensive per liter

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    Johnathan

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