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  1. #1
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    Warming up with new ASHP

    Warming up with new ASHP

    So having built my lockdown pool I’ve finally got round to installing a ASHP after months of deliberation. Hopefully this may help someone else who’s about to take the plunge and is unsure what to do.
    Pond is 1900 gallons including filters and pipe work and I deliberately kept a very small surface area, low gallonage with plenty of depth, Everything will be insulated and the pond is fibreglassed over Celotex. Pipe runs are also very short and most are buried, therefore insulated. Bottom drain to nexus 220, draco then pumped through uv back to pond via ea 10,000 variable flow pump. For my pond size a minimum of 5kw up to 7kw would be suitable. The actual availability of smaller ASHP’s is an issue compared to the larger models.

    Having looked into ASHP’s it’s a minefield out there. I chose Automated Environmental Systems (https://www.automatedenvironmentalsystems.co.uk/) as their sales team were very knowledgable and helpful. Basically I narrowed it down to inverter or non inverter (on/off type). The inverters prices start at approx normally double the on/off ones. The inverters are (on paper) far more efficient with a higher COP rating, ie. you get more KW output from the same wattage input, and all dependant on ambient temperature.

    There was one exception and The one I was going to go for was this (7 kw inverter) (https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/) for £995 was basically unavailable in the end, with no timeline on new stock, there now saying November. But as far as inverters go a bit of a bargain.

    The next available one up was £1255, and these were available within 3 days from Holland
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/
    In the end I just couldn’t justify the initial price tag. (There’s koi And never ending other stuff to buy!)

    After much deliberation on the on/off cheaper end of the market and restrictions on space to site the beast I finally decided on this one in 5.3 kw form.
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/. I liked the mini design and size and it only required 250 mm around it meaning I could squeeze it in next to the filter bay. It also discharges vertically rather than horizontally. It’s basically the companies own brandIng so they are in stock and presumably spares will be available, also one of the few marketed as a koi pond heater (there’s fish on the logo). cost was £700.00 with free next day delivery and there is also an even more mini one (3kw) and a larger one at 7kw. Comes with a two year on-site full warranty, followed by a further 5 year parts only warranty.
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ump-Manual.pdf
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ifications.pdf

    The other thing that led me to to this one was the very low claimed noise level (only 26 db) as far as I know that’s half the noise the similarly priced cheapo dream unit emits, and the fact they are true plug and play with an in-line rcd and UK plug. (No electrician required just plug it in). As I was to site it 2 metres from the house (and pond). Also came with the entry and exit 1.5” fittings supplied, and I bought the UPVC bypass kit from the same supplier
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ump-bypass-kit

    So I sited it next to my filter bay and close to the pond, altered all the pipe work yesterday so ready to start up today. Finished up dismantling half the rockery and alterations to filter bay were required. If you look at the bypass in the pics it’s designed so you can reduce the flow to the heat pump and channel more water back to the pond if required (for example if your flow rate is too high for the heat pump) with the valves the unit could also be disconnected and the water returned as normal. The nominal ( presumably optimum) flow rate for this unit is just under 3 m cubed per her (660 gallons) although I’m running it at about 800 and it seems fine. As Mentioned earlier this isn’t an issue with the bypass anyway.

    So I plugged into my North facing pond this morning at a freezing 11.5 degrees with the fish not really interested in feeding. The first thing I noticed it was extremely quiet as advertised and the nexus air pump was drowning out any noise.

    After figuring out how the heck to set it, it was up to 13 in about 30 minutes. Took a little longer for the next increments but basically it reached 16 (from 11.5) in around 6.5 hrs (This is without insulation on pond or exposed pipework yet) Seems to be holding there well even without insulation But presumably will kick in overnight to maintain as it’s gets colder.

    No idea what running costs will be and presumably not comparable to an inverter unit in theory, but for me on a smaller pond there would need to be big savings to justify the purchase price. I think on a larger pond it would be a no brainer and I would of gone inverter.

    The best thing was @ 9 pm tonight with a little steam coming off the water I had a pond full of active feeding fish like it was mid summer as opposed to sluggish winter fish! They were as confused as me lol, why are we suddenly lovely and warm!

    It also means my newish filter can continue to mature, the fish can continue to grow and Pete Butcher is now assured to win the Show and grow....

    For anyone thinking of heating, just do it! Next job is all the lagging and pond cover and how to disguise the unit a little. I’m thinking of some trellis fencing of some sort.









    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

  2. #2
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    It’s a weird looking thing with the fan on the top
    Let us know how it gets on over winter when the temps drop sub zero. That’s always the true test of an ASHP for winter UK use. Does it have a drip tray heater to stop the tray icing up below the fins?

    Ideally you should increase the temperature gradually by 1-2C a day max- keep an eye on your fish in case a rapid temperature change kicks off any latent parasite infestations.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    It’s a weird looking thing with the fan on the top
    Let us know how it gets on over winter when the temps drop sub zero. That’s always the true test of an ASHP for winter UK use. Does it have a drip tray heater to stop the tray icing up below the fins?

    Ideally you should increase the temperature gradually by 1-2C a day max- keep an eye on your fish in case a rapid temperature change kicks off any latent parasite infestations.
    Not weird it’s a thing of beauty! For me it’s more about extending the season Oct and March in particular. It operates own to -10 so fingers crossed that’s enough, I’m relying on heavy insulation for the cold months, and global warming. Hopefully there is a heated drip tray option or I’ll have to fashion one...
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  6. #4
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Not weird it’s a thing of beauty! For me it’s more about extending the season Oct and March in particular. It operates own to -10 so fingers crossed that’s enough, I’m relying on heavy insulation for the cold months, and global warming. Hopefully there is a heated drip tray option or I’ll have to fashion one...
    If it doesn’t have one should be possible to retro fit- the kit I fitted to mine is literally just a braided heated loop that you tape to the drip tray with aluminium sticky tape. It then has a temperature probe you screw or zip tie to the outside of the unit somewhere that is not the outlet fan. The only tricky bit is working out which of the power terminals inside the heat pump to wire it to- but it didn’t take me too long looking at the wiring diagram of the duratech to work it out.
    I got the kit from same place as the pump but I expect you can get them elsewhere too. https://www.heatpumps4pools.com/prod...y-heater-kits/

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    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai jphamill's Avatar
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    We've a Sunspring 10 kW for the above ground pool 18,000L and it looks very like that one ( no summer holidays away so it happened in the back garden) and It will heat the pool to 27 on a normal Irish summers day. It does not have a defrost mechanism so can completely ice up on a day where its cool and has drizzle. It just shuts down till it thaws out but it can really freeze solid very quickly so keep an eye on it when its damp.



    https://www.heatpumps4pools.com/prod...s-5kw-to-14kw/

    The pond has a Thermotec 9kW which does have a heating function to defrost its fins where all the fins get heated which I suspect will be very important as the temp drops and the grey mists settle in., I discovered this by accident when I saw steam rising behind the pump house and went to investigate.,Screenshot_20201001-102442_WhatsApp.jpg20201001_101033 (1).jpg the water from the fins just runs away into gravel I didn't bother with the drip tray hose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    It’s a weird looking thing with the fan on the top
    Let us know how it gets on over winter when the temps drop sub zero. That’s always the true test of an ASHP for winter UK use. Does it have a drip tray heater to stop the tray icing up below the fins?

    Ideally you should increase the temperature gradually by 1-2C a day max- keep an eye on your fish in case a rapid temperature change kicks off any latent parasite infestations.
    Last edited by jphamill; 04-10-2020 at 12:33 AM.
    2700 G Above ground, Nexus 220, EA 24 bead, 1m 2 tier custom Evolve shower 9kW Thermotech ASHP

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  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamill View Post
    We've a Sunspring 10 kW for the above ground pool 18,000L and it looks very like ( no summer holidays away so it happened in the back garden) and It will heat the pool to 27 on a normal Irish summers day. It does not have a defrost mechanism so can completely ice up on a day where its cool and has drizzle. It just shuts down till it thaws out but it can really freeze solid very quickly so keep an eye on it when its damp.



    https://www.heatpumps4pools.com/prod...s-5kw-to-14kw/

    The pond has a Thermotec 9kW which does have a heating function to defrost its fins where all the fins get heated which I suspect will be very important as the temp drops and the grey mists settle in., I discovered this by accident when I saw steam rising behind the pump house and went to investigate.,Screenshot_20201001-102442_WhatsApp.jpg20201001_101033 (1).jpg the water from the fins just runs away into gravel I didn't bother with the drip tray hose.
    I shouldn’t have any issues as mine is marketed as a koi pond heater and functions down to -10. It’s no different to the majority of on/off pumps out there save for the compact design. The only thing i really need is a heated drip tray
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  12. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    nice report Spongebob, i like the small size of the unit that could well be what i am looking for as it would fit inside my filter housing nicely, looks a good option for me for next year, thanks Steve..
    2200 gallons,infinity window,
    Evolve 4k combi,spindrifter,
    2x20k pumps, BD,Skimmer,
    Shower, ASHP

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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    nice report Spongebob, i like the small size of the unit that could well be what i am looking for as it would fit inside my filter housing nicely, looks a good option for me for next year, thanks Steve..
    Bear in mind you cannot fit a heat pump inside a building or enclosure. They need a free flow of outside air a round them to draw the heat from.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    looks a cracking piece of kit that!

    the only issue i thought you might have when it was mentioned in an earlier thread,
    was the minimum operating temperature as some seasonal pool heaters only work down to about +10C
    but working down to -10C that should be fine.

    design look similar to the thermotec high output ashp's



    Warming up with new ASHP-products-thermotec-inverter-vertical-pic2-jpg

    it may not be as energy saving as an inverter type,
    but even working at 60% output 3-8 cop vs 4-9 cop it's still going to save a lot of money comapered to an electric direct heater....
    here's some thermotech inverter vs standard ASHP COP curves
    plus with a winter water temp lower than 26C the performance will be even better...

    Warming up with new ASHP-thermotec-inverter-cop-charts-jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by davethefish1; 01-10-2020 at 03:20 PM.

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  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Warming up with new ASHP

    So having built my lockdown pool I’ve finally got round to installing a ASHP after months of deliberation. Hopefully this may help someone else who’s about to take the plunge and is unsure what to do.
    Pond is 1900 gallons including filters and pipe work and I deliberately kept a very small surface area, low gallonage with plenty of depth, Everything will be insulated and the pond is fibreglassed over Celotex. Pipe runs are also very short and most are buried, therefore insulated. Bottom drain to nexus 220, draco then pumped through uv back to pond via ea 10,000 variable flow pump. For my pond size a minimum of 5kw up to 7kw would be suitable. The actual availability of smaller ASHP’s is an issue compared to the larger models.

    Having looked into ASHP’s it’s a minefield out there. I chose Automated Environmental Systems (https://www.automatedenvironmentalsystems.co.uk/) as their sales team were very knowledgable and helpful. Basically I narrowed it down to inverter or non inverter (on/off type). The inverters prices start at approx normally double the on/off ones. The inverters are (on paper) far more efficient with a higher COP rating, ie. you get more KW output from the same wattage input, and all dependant on ambient temperature.

    There was one exception and The one I was going to go for was this (7 kw inverter) (https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/) for £995 was basically unavailable in the end, with no timeline on new stock, there now saying November. But as far as inverters go a bit of a bargain.

    The next available one up was £1255, and these were available within 3 days from Holland
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/
    In the end I just couldn’t justify the initial price tag. (There’s koi And never ending other stuff to buy!)

    After much deliberation on the on/off cheaper end of the market and restrictions on space to site the beast I finally decided on this one in 5.3 kw form.
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/. I liked the mini design and size and it only required 250 mm around it meaning I could squeeze it in next to the filter bay. It also discharges vertically rather than horizontally. It’s basically the companies own brandIng so they are in stock and presumably spares will be available, also one of the few marketed as a koi pond heater (there’s fish on the logo). cost was £700.00 with free next day delivery and there is also an even more mini one (3kw) and a larger one at 7kw. Comes with a two year on-site full warranty, followed by a further 5 year parts only warranty.
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ump-Manual.pdf
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ifications.pdf

    The other thing that led me to to this one was the very low claimed noise level (only 26 db) as far as I know that’s half the noise the similarly priced cheapo dream unit emits, and the fact they are true plug and play with an in-line rcd and UK plug. (No electrician required just plug it in). As I was to site it 2 metres from the house (and pond). Also came with the entry and exit 1.5” fittings supplied, and I bought the UPVC bypass kit from the same supplier
    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ump-bypass-kit

    So I sited it next to my filter bay and close to the pond, altered all the pipe work yesterday so ready to start up today. Finished up dismantling half the rockery and alterations to filter bay were required. If you look at the bypass in the pics it’s designed so you can reduce the flow to the heat pump and channel more water back to the pond if required (for example if your flow rate is too high for the heat pump) with the valves the unit could also be disconnected and the water returned as normal. The nominal ( presumably optimum) flow rate for this unit is just under 3 m cubed per her (660 gallons) although I’m running it at about 800 and it seems fine. As Mentioned earlier this isn’t an issue with the bypass anyway.

    So I plugged into my North facing pond this morning at a freezing 11.5 degrees with the fish not really interested in feeding. The first thing I noticed it was extremely quiet as advertised and the nexus air pump was drowning out any noise.

    After figuring out how the heck to set it, it was up to 13 in about 30 minutes. Took a little longer for the next increments but basically it reached 16 (from 11.5) in around 6.5 hrs (This is without insulation on pond or exposed pipework yet) Seems to be holding there well even without insulation But presumably will kick in overnight to maintain as it’s gets colder.

    No idea what running costs will be and presumably not comparable to an inverter unit in theory, but for me on a smaller pond there would need to be big savings to justify the purchase price. I think on a larger pond it would be a no brainer and I would of gone inverter.

    The best thing was @ 9 pm tonight with a little steam coming off the water I had a pond full of active feeding fish like it was mid summer as opposed to sluggish winter fish! They were as confused as me lol, why are we suddenly lovely and warm!

    It also means my newish filter can continue to mature, the fish can continue to grow and Pete Butcher is now assured to win the Show and grow....

    For anyone thinking of heating, just do it! Next job is all the lagging and pond cover and how to disguise the unit a little. I’m thinking of some trellis fencing of some sort.







    better looking than my white ASHP...great compact design..

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  20. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Very impressed with it so far. My main motivation is to extend the season in October and March And keep it reasonable with covers from Nov-Feb, at current temperatures it’s working brilliantly, once up to temp (currently 18) it holds it for long periods easily without the pump being on at all.
    I think this is where an inverter would really perhaps come into its own though where an inverter would stay “on” using a very small amount of electricity to maintain temp as opposed to switching off and then needing to boost it up again? Anyway at the current temps very happy and the fish are loving it! Down to about 5 degrees tonight so interesting to see how it copes.
    I think I’m going to use some of these to box it in, With a bit of a Japanese theme, hopefully won’t affect the airflow:

    bp service station near me
    Last edited by Spongebob; 01-10-2020 at 10:59 PM.
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  22. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Very impressed with it so far. My main motivation is to extend the season in October and March And keep it reasonable with covers from Nov-Feb, at current temperatures it’s working brilliantly, once up to temp (currently 18) it holds it for long periods easily without the pump being on at all.
    I think this is where an inverter would really perhaps come into its own though where an inverter would stay “on” using a very small amount of electricity to maintain temp as opposed to switching off and then needing to boost it up again? Anyway at the current temps very happy and the fish are loving it! Down to about 5 degrees tonight so interesting to see how it copes.
    I think I’m going to use some of these to box it in, With a bit of a Japanese theme, hopefully won’t affect the airflow:

    bp service station near me
    looks good to me,
    nice fence panels, very land of the rising sun...

    we screened the AC compressors in at work with fence panels, there are usually stated distances from walls ect in the installation instructions.
    they had vertical fans too, so as long as the top isn't covered and you leave a reasonable distance around the compressor it should be ok.
    it basically doesn't want to be recirculating the cold air it vents,
    and have enough clearance around it not to impede air flow through the fins.


    here are some installation tips i found,
    you could basically wall around a vertical ashp with just a 12" gap around it, leaving the top open of course....
    rather than the 2.5 meters needed in front of a horizonal ashp

    that could be the answer for all of us who need to deaden the sound from an ashp!
    vertical ashp and wall around with attenuation panels to dampen sound.

    https://www.heatpumps4pools.com/pool-heat-pump-installation-tips/

    Warming up with new ASHP-vertical-heat-pump-clearance-diagram-jpg

    Warming up with new ASHP-layout-diagram-jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by davethefish1; 02-10-2020 at 11:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    looks good to me,
    nice fence panels, very land of the rising sun...

    we screened the AC compressors in at work with fence panels, there are usually stated distances from walls ect in the installation instructions.
    they had vertical fans too, so as long as the top isn't covered and you leave a reasonable distance around the compressor it should be ok.
    it basically doesn't want to be recirculating the cold air it vents,
    and have enough clearance around it not to impede air flow through the fins.


    here are some installation tips i found,
    you could basically wall around a vertical ashp with just a 12" gap around it, leaving the top open of course....
    rather than the 2.5 meters needed in front of a horizonal ashp

    that could be the answer for all of us who need to deaden the sound from an ashp!
    vertical ashp and wall around with attenuation panels to dampen sound.

    https://www.heatpumps4pools.com/pool-heat-pump-installation-tips/

    Warming up with new ASHP-vertical-heat-pump-clearance-diagram-jpg

    Warming up with new ASHP-layout-diagram-jpg
    Cool. Yep only a small distance needed, that’s what sold this design to me.The expelled air isn’t actually vertical on mine it’s more 45 degrees out the top (I had to move my tree fern immediately) as it was suddenly in the arctic circle lol.
    There’s no real way that air could be recirculated though so I suspect it would fit in a much tighter spot in reality.
    I suppose I should be monitoring costs, but the joy of standing with happy active fish in freezing temps would be worth it as any cost . Just look forwards to the day I can actually feed them!

    edit: I wish I had something to compare with but the noise is also minimal to the point of not being heard at all, and it’s sighted 1.5 metres from our orangery wall
    Last edited by Spongebob; 03-10-2020 at 08:47 PM.
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Boxed it in today hopefully not too much and still working like a dream with water at 20 degrees



    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Boxed it in today hopefully not too much and still working like a dream with water at 20 degrees



    i like it!
    can't see any problem with that...
    any air expelled from the top is not going to be recyled, and lots of space for free air movement around it to draw in.
    Last edited by davethefish1; 08-10-2020 at 10:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post

    There was one exception and The one I was going to go for was this (7 kw inverter) (https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/) for £995 was basically unavailable in the end, with no timeline on new stock, there now saying November. But as far as inverters go a bit of a bargain.

    Hi Spongebob,

    I've read over your brilliant post a few times to absorb it all and was looking at the various models, however, the one you've linked to above is showing as £1225 and not £995.

    Have they jumped their prices up ?

    Cheers.

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  32. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Apologies it was the 5.3 kw version that comes in at 985.00. Although I think the 7.2 kw at 1225.00 still looks a bit of a bargain compared to the competition.
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  34. #18
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    Ok so an update! Started to have issues a couple of weeks back, with fan running slow and constantly defrosting. Wouldn’t heat the water. I thought it may be the siting (Moisture in the air) So I bit the bullet ordered more pipe work and resited it the other side of the steps, it’s better now and water back to 20 degrees.
    However there’s still a problem and the fan is turning slowly even needing manually turning at times. So I started to think bearing in mind it’s 14 degrees today it’s going to struggle in winter, so after a few discussions the company agreed to send out a brand new unit tomorrow, can’t argue with that.
    Anyway I thought then need to be upgrading here, so I’ve gone for a 9kw inverter instead..... What drew me to this was the AVERAGE COP of 10 and up to 18.5 which is the highest out there. Plus it’s still plug and play and comes with 3 year onsite warranty plus an extra 4 years parts only.

    https://www.automatedenvironmentalsy...ool-heat-pump/

    So in summary the unit probably wasn’t up to it, doubling up and going inverter will hopefully do the job at a canter, and my savings took another big koi hit
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

  35. Thanks RS2OOO, Stephen01, arceye Thanked / Liked this Post
  36. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Stephen01's Avatar
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    Really helpful thread, so pleased you have done this. Looking at inverters at the moment and the two that stick out are the remora entry level and the thermotec 9kw inverters. This has given me invaluable information and made my mind up. Thanks Warming up with new ASHP


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  37. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen01 View Post
    Really helpful thread, so pleased you have done this. Looking at inverters at the moment and the two that stick out are the remora entry level and the thermotec 9kw inverters. This has given me invaluable information and made my mind up. Thanks Warming up with new ASHP


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Which are you going for?
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

  38. Thanks Stephen01 Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
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