Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32
  1. #1

    Keeping ph stable

    So I run a ph of roughly around 7.7 but don’t keep to much of an eye on it if I’m honest but would like to add something to the pond to keep it more stable as I’m learning it can jump around throughout the day. I know people use oyster shells but woundered if there is anything else I can use? Also where is it best to place it? Cheers guys Keeping ph stable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



  2. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by charco123 View Post
    So I run a ph of roughly around 7.7 but don’t keep to much of an eye on it if I’m honest but would like to add something to the pond to keep it more stable as I’m learning it can jump around throughout the day. I know people use oyster shells but woundered if there is anything else I can use? Also where is it best to place it? Cheers guys Keeping ph stable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I use Sodium Bicarbonate to keep mine around 8.6, it also keeps my KH nicely aprons 6 to 10 drops
    Neil


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  4. Thanks jphamill Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    What is your KH charco? And how much pH variability are you actually getting on sunny days?

    It’s unlikely adding more bicarbonate will improve your stability unless your KH is currently very low.

    Ive had most success at getting nice steady pH levels by having no plants and little green algae in the pond, since it’s the midday and afternoon photosynthesis that tends to push the pH up then as dissolved CO2 gets consumed. Providing shade over your pond can help with this.

  6. Thanks HeySid, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  7. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ndwgolf View Post
    I use Sodium Bicarbonate to keep mine around 8.6, it also keeps my KH nicely aprons 6 to 10 drops
    Neil


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Isn’t 8.6 really high? I thought that would be dangerously high? Mines Around 7.6 and I am concerned? But I’m still learning so unsure myself.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    What is your KH charco? And how much pH variability are you actually getting on sunny days?

    It’s unlikely adding more bicarbonate will improve your stability unless your KH is currently very low.

    Ive had most success at getting nice steady pH levels by having no plants and little green algae in the pond, since it’s the midday and afternoon photosynthesis that tends to push the pH up then as dissolved CO2 gets consumed. Providing shade over your pond can help with this.
    Hi mate thanks for the reply. I have to be honest I have never tested for kh. I do have 3 floating plants in the pond which is something that I love so wouldn’t get rid of them. And I don’t have a roof over the pond but it does get some shade through the day from the filter shed beside it. But it is mainly in direct light. I just know that perfect ph is around 7.0 and I’m running higher than that and keep hearing about oyster shells to stabilise it etc. I don’t want a roof or to get rid of the plants as I want the fish to get the sunlight and I do want the plants for the wildlife side of it. But do want to keep my ph as stable as poss. I’m even considering next year doing a ro unit on the pond as I hear that drops ph.cheers mate and sorry for the late reply Keeping ph stable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  10. #6
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by charco123 View Post
    Hi mate thanks for the reply. I have to be honest I have never tested for kh. I do have 3 floating plants in the pond which is something that I love so wouldn’t get rid of them. And I don’t have a roof over the pond but it does get some shade through the day from the filter shed beside it. But it is mainly in direct light. I just know that perfect ph is around 7.0 and I’m running higher than that and keep hearing about oyster shells to stabilise it etc. I don’t want a roof or to get rid of the plants as I want the fish to get the sunlight and I do want the plants for the wildlife side of it. But do want to keep my ph as stable as poss. I’m even considering next year doing a ro unit on the pond as I hear that drops ph.cheers mate and sorry for the late reply Keeping ph stable

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think that you should look at getting a KH test kit so you know where you are with that, and can also check your mains water KH.
    There is no ‘ideal’ pH for koi, they do well at a wide range of pHs so long as it’s stable over a 24 hour period. 6.9 to 8.5 are fine. But daily fluctuations of more than 0.3 they don’t like.

    Ammonia is more toxic at higher pH’s which is one reason why some of us like to run a lower pH. But it is expensive to do unless you have very soft mains water, and risky as pH crashes can easily happen if you take your eye off the ball even for a short time.

    Unless you are running RO with all the monitors that go with that, it’s easier to keep your KH at at least 4 for stability. Most people pH will be at least 7.5 at that kind of KH level.

  11. Thanks freddyboy, Manky Sanke Thanked / Liked this Post
  12. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    I think that you should look at getting a KH test kit so you know where you are with that, and can also check your mains water KH.
    There is no ‘ideal’ pH for koi, they do well at a wide range of pHs so long as it’s stable over a 24 hour period. 6.9 to 8.5 are fine. But daily fluctuations of more than 0.3 they don’t like.

    Ammonia is more toxic at higher pH’s which is one reason why some of us like to run a lower pH. But it is expensive to do unless you have very soft mains water, and risky as pH crashes can easily happen if you take your eye off the ball even for a short time.

    Unless you are running RO with all the monitors that go with that, it’s easier to keep your KH at at least 4 for stability. Most people pH will be at least 7.5 at that kind of KH level.
    Yeah il get a kh test kit api sell them separately from the main kit they do so il grab one of them. I have also been doing abit of research on lithaqua which I believe works the same way as oyster shells. Il keep you posted ya mate Keeping ph stable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  14. #8
    So I bought a Colombo test kit for kh today and tested at 8 o’clock this evening it tested at kh 12 drops till turned yellow and my ph tested at 7.8 (I think I struggle reading the ph color). From what I have read a optimal result for a ponds kh should be 6-8... so I had a look on the web and apparently it’s not a danger to fish between 4-20 anythink out of this is classed hazardous. So my question is am I ok with a result of 12 or should I try to act on lowering it and if so how? As I’m right in thinking khbuffer increases it doesn’t it? But what if I wanted to lower it. If it’s ok as is it’s fine il leave it but just after some advice really. Cheers guys


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  16. #9
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    If you wanted to lower it you would have to run RO.
    Before even considering that, you would need to decide what it is you are hoping to achieve. It’s easy to spend hundreds of pounds a year for no good reason if you haven’t got a specific aim. Are you on metered water?

  17. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  18. #10
    My PH tested via the Hana meter is 8.6. Ph tested via the API test kit is 7 to 7.5.........which one is correct?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  19. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  20. #11
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by ndwgolf View Post
    My PH tested via the Hana meter is 8.6. Ph tested via the API test kit is 7 to 7.5.........which one is correct?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    The one that a 3rd test method agrees with

    You can test the accuracy of your digital meter by sticking it in distilled water, white vinegar, and a saturated bicarbonate solution.

  21. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  22. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    If you wanted to lower it you would have to run RO.
    Before even considering that, you would need to decide what it is you are hoping to achieve. It’s easy to spend hundreds of pounds a year for no good reason if you haven’t got a specific aim. Are you on metered water?
    I’m just investigating it feline, I’m more after advice if I should act or if it is ok to leave the way it is! I never really looked in to kh so want to know what people on here would do if they ran a kh of 12. I just want the fish to be happy really. And know my options and then I can view prices etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  24. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ndwgolf View Post
    My PH tested via the Hana meter is 8.6. Ph tested via the API test kit is 7 to 7.5.........which one is correct?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Mate I can’t really read my api ph test! Can’t decide what color it is Keeping ph stable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #14
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by charco123 View Post
    I’m just investigating it feline, I’m more after advice if I should act or if it is ok to leave the way it is! I never really looked in to kh so want to know what people on here would do if they ran a kh of 12. I just want the fish to be happy really. And know my options and then I can view prices etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You can run your pond fine with a KH of 12.
    It does mean that your pH will tend to be on the higher end of the range for koi, which actually doesn’t matter so long as it’s stable.
    Where it does become an issue though is if you get an ammonia spike for any reason- because more of the ammonia is in the toxic form at higher pHs.

    But if you make sure you don’t overload your filters with too many fish or too much feeding, and you avoid killing your filter with chemical treatments, then it really doesn’t make much difference.

    I suppose the real answer to your question is though that if you become deeply into this hobby and invest in expensive fish, try to keep show quality fish or grow jumbo fish- there are some reasons why you might then consider running RO.

    It allows you to choose what KH and pH you run. It’s also about the ‘purity’ of the water, and trying to replicate the extremely low TDS conditions of the mud ponds in Japan. Hard water is believed to cause shimmies, and affect the quality and lustre of the skin, as well as suppress growth. The average hobbyist is not really going to notice this though.
    Last edited by Feline; 20-10-2020 at 12:43 AM.

  26. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  27. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    You can run your pond fine with a KH of 12.
    It does mean that your pH will tend to be on the higher end of the range for koi, which actually doesn’t matter so long as it’s stable.
    Where it does become an issue though is if you get an ammonia spike for any reason- because more of the ammonia is in the toxic form at higher pHs.

    But if you make sure you don’t overload your filters with too many fish or too much feeding, and you avoid killing your filter with chemical treatments, then it really doesn’t make much difference.

    I suppose the real answer to your question is though that if you become deeply into this hobby and invest in expensive fish, try to keep show quality fish or grow jumbo fish- there are some reasons why you might then consider running RO.

    It allows you to choose what KH and pH you run. It’s also about the ‘purity’ of the water, and trying to replicate the extremely low TDS conditions of the mud ponds in Japan. Hard water is believed to cause shimmies, and affect the quality and lustre of the skin, as well as suppress growth. The average hobbyist is not really going to notice this though.
    Thanks for the response! Well I’d say I’m over filtered for now until they get bigger so I should be fine for now and for next year. That said I’m planning making a new filter over winter as it’s something I wanted to do for a while now so il probably have a new filter for next year meaning il be well over filtered, but like you say as the fish grow etc it won’t be wasted. I have been looking into ro I must admit. Hard to research though not much out there for info. Don’t you like make it up yourself and work out how many membranes to do the volume you need or something .... I’ll have another look but I was intrested i must admit. That Rasta koi mentions about it quiet abit. Are you running ro on yours ! Cheers Keeping ph stable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  28. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  29. #16
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by charco123 View Post
    Thanks for the response! Well I’d say I’m over filtered for now until they get bigger so I should be fine for now and for next year. That said I’m planning making a new filter over winter as it’s something I wanted to do for a while now so il probably have a new filter for next year meaning il be well over filtered, but like you say as the fish grow etc it won’t be wasted. I have been looking into ro I must admit. Hard to research though not much out there for info. Don’t you like make it up yourself and work out how many membranes to do the volume you need or something .... I’ll have another look but I was intrested i must admit. That Rasta koi mentions about it quiet abit. Are you running ro on yours ! Cheers Keeping ph stable


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes sort of. I say sort of because I’ve not been running my RO system over the past few months since my membrane needs replacing and I’ve been off sick from work on and off.

    This time of year I can pretty much get away without running it anyway because I’m holding 22-23C and feeding heavily. The filters bugs are chewing through all the KH in my mains top up so I’m having to add bicarbonate to keep the pH at around 7.3. KH from the tap is 10!

    This is current without the RO running (complete with filter house cobwebs), KH is just under 2 DH


    My RO setup is one I’ve built myself based on Andy Finch’s original idea of recycling pond water through an RO membrane from the clean side of the drum. I’m using a single 4040 Eco membrane (these are the big 1m long membranes used by pole window cleaners). Andy has now set up his own business building these systems for customers, and he is selling plain RO and recycling RO complete setups that he has made look all tidy and smart- so you can now buy an out of the box system without messing about yourself. I kind of like playing with water, pipes and meters though

  30. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  31. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Quote Originally Posted by charco123 View Post
    I’m just investigating it feline, I’m more after advice if I should act or if it is ok to leave the way it is! I never really looked in to kh so want to know what people on here would do if they ran a kh of 12. I just want the fish to be happy really. And know my options and then I can view prices etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My kh was 12/13 for 25 years. This year with the pandemic. It's now 7/8. Tested with API kit. So it shows water boards are doing something to the water.
    My fish have always been ok. Got the odd one with shimmis but most are ok. I have grown some to around 80cm
    My ph has always been 8.2
    But the fish are healthy. And there is 55 fish in the water. Mixed pond. Orfs Rudd tench and 17 koi
    And I have not had a problem.
    And as feline says. Unless you want high end stock. And massive fish. They will be ok mate.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  32. #18
    Cheers Fredy mate. That’s good to hear then. As long as they are healthy that’s what’s most important. But i still like to see how I can improve. Already looking into new things for next year lol best thing I done was put a pond in the house. I don’t even mind the winter part either still gets me in the garden which is good!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  33. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  34. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    The one that a 3rd test method agrees with

    You can test the accuracy of your digital meter by sticking it in distilled water, white vinegar, and a saturated bicarbonate solution.
    What do each of those equate to?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  35. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Yes sort of. I say sort of because I’ve not been running my RO system over the past few months since my membrane needs replacing and I’ve been off sick from work on and off.

    This time of year I can pretty much get away without running it anyway because I’m holding 22-23C and feeding heavily. The filters bugs are chewing through all the KH in my mains top up so I’m having to add bicarbonate to keep the pH at around 7.3. KH from the tap is 10!

    This is current without the RO running (complete with filter house cobwebs), KH is just under 2 DH


    My RO setup is one I’ve built myself based on Andy Finch’s original idea of recycling pond water through an RO membrane from the clean side of the drum. I’m using a single 4040 Eco membrane (these are the big 1m long membranes used by pole window cleaners). Andy has now set up his own business building these systems for customers, and he is selling plain RO and recycling RO complete setups that he has made look all tidy and smart- so you can now buy an out of the box system without messing about yourself. I kind of like playing with water, pipes and meters though
    Please can you send me a link to that meter of yours..........I wouldn’t mind having one of those bad boys

    Neil


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  36. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:34 AM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.