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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Nitrites / Nexus and the addition of salt

    Hi all
    Been reading rs2000 thread and how he battled with nitrites for over 6 months despite trying numerous methods to improve levels of nitrite. I'm suffering similar problems and cannot seem to get my nitrite level below 2 ppm despite regular seeding of my nexus 220 with live bacteria.
    I have overcome high ammonia and ph with levels down to 0.25 and 8.2 respectively.
    In an ideal world I would have matured my k1 before adding fish but a house move forced me to move the fish into the pond before I could do this.
    I'm now thinking it may take another 4 or 5 months to get my nitrites down to acceptable levels and my question is what is the correct type and dosage of salt to add to help the fish ride out this high level and lessen the effect of the nitrite on them?
    Appreciate your advice on this

    Paul



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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I'm in the same boat as you Frosty. So am interested in any responses you get.

    I started my pond in October and am constantly battling nitrites, and have been for months.

    I was hoping it would be sorted by now with the warm temps over summer. The dropping temperatures are not going to help.

    Are you heated?

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Nitrites / Nexus and the addition of salt

    Hi Paul,

    You would likely be best to try and deal with your nitrite with water changes.

    There is a lot of info on Manky Sanke’s site about nitrite and at the bottom it details the use of salt.

    https://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/go...de__pt_14.html

    Hope this helps and that you get the filters matured soon.

    How long has the pond been running?
    what bio filters do you have? If just the nexus how much k1?
    How many fish?
    Pond capacity?


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  7. #4
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    I'm insulated but unfortunately not heated
    Only 1400 gallons and running a 20000 lph pump between 35 and 60% to try and vary the flow thru / dwell time in the nexus
    I find it a little worrying that you are 10 months in and still battling nitrites. What are your stocking levels and have you seen any effects on your koi?
    I have 16 fish but only a couple of koi. Most are commons mirrors and ghosties with 5 over 20 years old so they are producing plenty of waste

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  9. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Be interested to hear how much K1 you have in, ive increased to 150 litres and it rolls fine (I’m thinking of adding more) Worth thinking about the new K + too, the rate of maturity would appear significantly faster it seems. Re the salt table below from Mankey Sanke

    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  11. #6
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Be interested to hear how much K1 you have in, ive increased to 150 litres and it rolls fine (I’m thinking of adding more) Worth thinking about the new K + too, the rate of maturity would appear significantly faster it seems. Re the salt table below from Mankey Sanke

    Big thanks for the guide that is very helpful
    I think the 220 comes with 50litres of k1 in the bio
    I've added about another 10 to try and help things along
    I'm running a 70lpm air pump direct to nexus so would it be OK to up the k1 to 100 litres with the same air pump?
    I've also done numerous 30% water changes
    Last edited by pfrosty; 03-09-2020 at 10:56 PM.

  12. #7
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    High nitrite in new or fairly new systems is a pain, but to be expected.

    If water changes and pond bombs etc. are not bringing it down fast enough and to a level that you and your fish are happy with then salting the pond is worth considering, and something I have done myself when faced with that situation. Nitrite kills by lowering oxygen carrying capacity of the fishes blood, and salt helps with that.

    So on a temporary basis I would definitely consider salting to 0.3% (that means adding 3kg salt per 1000 litres of pond).
    Its worth investing in a salt meter because when you change water you will need to top up this salt. (It also helps prevent overdose of salt in ponds of unknown volume).

    Before you make the decision to salt though consider whether zeolite could help you out a bit. It mops up ammonia and therefore reduces the amount that gets converted to nitrite. It is recharged by soaking in salt solution, so obviously you cannot use it in a salted pond. I always keep a few kgs of it in fine mesh bags for emergency use.

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  14. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Big thanks for the guide that is very helpful
    I think the 220 comes with 50litres of k1 in the bio
    I've added about another 10 to try and help things along
    I'm running a 70lpm air pump direct to nexus so would it be OK to up the k1 to 100 litres with the same air pump?
    Im in a similar position to you with nitrite just starting to appear on a new system. Personally I think 50 is way off, I have 150 litres in mine with an 80 pump and it still rolls perfectly. I’d certainly be adding another 50 at least (try the new K+). As feline says also consider Zeolite ( I have 10 kg in mine (in final chamber on nexus in mesh bags) Easy to recharge but don’t use if you do add the salt.
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    I will read up and consider the zeolite so thanks for the heads up
    Can you explain why it's not possible to use it in a salted pond?
    Also is salting the pond a problem for the fish long term?

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  18. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same 60L seems low for 16 fish.. but suppose it all depends on feeding etc

    Also if the ammonia is stable and not spiking the filter seems capable...? I may have missed something and I am no expert.


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  20. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    I will read up and consider the zeolite so thanks for the heads up
    Can you explain why it's not possible to use it in a salted pond?
    Also is salting the pond a problem for the fish long term?
    Zeolite will absorb ammonia and lock it in. You can recharge it buy soaking it in salt.

    Therefore if you add salt to the pond it will not absorb the ammonia and is useless


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  22. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Nitrites / Nexus and the addition of salt

    This is where I got mine from.. i keep it incase of issues


    https://www.pond-planet.co.uk/pond-c...lite-5kg-p1663

    Read the description


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  23. #13
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    I will read up and consider the zeolite so thanks for the heads up
    Can you explain why it's not possible to use it in a salted pond?
    Also is salting the pond a problem for the fish long term?
    When zeolite has soaked up a bunch of ammonia you soak it in a salt solution to make it release the ammonia again so you can rinse it off and use it again. That’s why you cannot use zeolite in a salted pond.

    Salting a pond for a short term reason is perfectly OK and salt is used a huge amount in Japan for all sorts of reasons. Some justified and some less so

    Lomg terms though I would not advise it for several reasons some of which I’m afraid are complex.

    1. Koi are fresh water fish. Their kidneys have not evolved to cope with a salt water environment long term.
    2, Whatever issue you are hoping to address with salt, should not be a long term one. Don’t use salt as a ‘band aid’ as the Leftpondians would say. Sort out any underlying water quality issues.

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  25. #14
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Ah I see now so when it's absorbed its maximum capacity of ammonia you can remove it and soak in the salt to make it absorb again.
    Therefore it won't absorb in a salted pond
    Thanks

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  27. #15
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Ah I see now so when it's absorbed its maximum capacity of ammonia you can remove it and soak in the salt to make it absorb again.
    Therefore it won't absorb in a salted pond
    Thanks
    Yeah.
    Its remarkably useful when faced with a sudden ammonia (and/or nitrite) spike, for example when the koi are spawning.
    I think everyone should have some in their ‘just in case’ pile of rubbish in the garage to be honest

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  29. #16
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    This is where I got mine from.. i keep it incase of issues


    https://www.pond-planet.co.uk/pond-c...lite-5kg-p1663

    Read the description


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Great stuff Mike big thanks

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  31. #17
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Yeah.
    Its remarkably useful when faced with a sudden ammonia (and/or nitrite) spike, for example when the koi are spawning.
    I think everyone should have some in their ‘just in case’ pile of rubbish in the garage to be honest
    Thanks for your advice mate
    Will order some and 50 litres of k+ tomorrow

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  33. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Great stuff Mike big thanks
    No problem.. POND5 discount always works to Nitrites / Nexus and the addition of salt every little helps Nitrites / Nexus and the addition of salt


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  35. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Thanks for your advice mate
    Will order some and 50 litres of k+ tomorrow
    Just for info I was advised not to pp the K+ .
    Fibreglassed/5000 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  37. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Hi all
    Been reading rs2000 thread and how he battled with nitrites for over 6 months despite trying numerous methods to improve levels of nitrite. I'm suffering similar problems and cannot seem to get my nitrite level below 2 ppm despite regular seeding of my nexus 220 with live bacteria.
    I have overcome high ammonia and ph with levels down to 0.25 and 8.2 respectively.
    In an ideal world I would have matured my k1 before adding fish but a house move forced me to move the fish into the pond before I could do this.
    I'm now thinking it may take another 4 or 5 months to get my nitrites down to acceptable levels and my question is what is the correct type and dosage of salt to add to help the fish ride out this high level and lessen the effect of the nitrite on them?
    Appreciate your advice on this

    Paul
    Paul

    As Lara (Feline) said, salt is a short term fix for a high nitrite level while a biofilter matures but koi are a freshwater fish and long term exposure to a saline environment is not healthy.

    The prevalent myth spread via social media that salt somehow makes nitrite non-toxic isn't as true as some believe. Salt reduces the damage that nitrite does to the oxygen carrying capacity of haemoglobin in the blood which is the major cause of rapid death due to nitrite toxicity but it does nothing to reduce the organ and nerve damage that it also causes. Salt may keep a fish alive that would otherwise die of methaemoglobinemia (brown blood disease / nitrite poisoning) but it doesn't completely render it harmless to long term health.

    The idea that hobbyists can live with high nitrite as long as they put some salt in a pond is a myth causing koi to suffer long term health damage and possibly far shorter lives because hobbyists are being misled into believing that salt provides complete protection against high nitrite.

    Stopping feeding and water changes are the only practical way to reduce the harmful effects of ammonia and nitrite due to new pond syndrome.

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