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  1. #161
    Many users have different results using AFS. Some got great consistent results, for few it stopped working after 2 years or so. I guess it depends on the litter being used as they can vary from country to country. As Dr. Novak has used litter made years ago for many years my guess is just like everything else litter quality also might have gone down. As manufacturers tend to choose cheaper materials to cut cost to keep on surviving in the business. Just my thoughts.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockfella View Post
    Many users have different results using AFS. Some got great consistent results, for few it stopped working after 2 years or so. I guess it depends on the litter being used as they can vary from country to country. As Dr. Novak has used litter made years ago for many years my guess is just like everything else litter quality also might have gone down. As manufacturers tend to choose cheaper materials to cut cost to keep on surviving in the business. Just my thoughts.
    Hi/ Been following the idea of Anoxic filtration for a couple of years now. And only heard positive experiences with this type of filtration. I'm due to change my filtration in the very near future. And for me now,it giving me a few concerns on this type of filtration. I'm very interested in hearing from other people thoughts experience on the subject. Thank you

  3. #163
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai AlanF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog1 View Post
    Hi/ Been following the idea of Anoxic filtration for a couple of years now. And only heard positive experiences with this type of filtration. I'm due to change my filtration in the very near future. And for me now,it giving me a few concerns on this type of filtration. I'm very interested in hearing from other people thoughts experience on the subject. Thank you
    The choice of cat litter must be key to the success of Anoxic system. It has taken me buying and trying at least 5-6 different brands before choosing the right one. As has been said, quality and sources can change over time so what worked for someone in the past might not work now. First thing is to avoid any scented or clumping types also any that contain material other than "clay". As long as it is pure clay with a reasonable granule size and it survives immersion in water for 24hrs without degrading, it should be fine.
    I found that it was mostly the cheaper "budget" types which worked best- my original was from Wilko's but when I replaced it that litter had gone so I had to start over again. I just use a sieve to remove the fine dust when making the baskets and then give them a final rinse with a hosepipe before adding to the pond. The dust can be saved and used as "pond clay" as it is exactly the same stuff
    The baskets from the original system were as good as the day I made them after 2years( replaced due to KHV infection of pond).
    The other ingredient of laterite or Aquabasis is freely available so no issues there.

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  5. #164
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Jampot's Avatar
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    As posted up thread I think (and elsewhere) this is a reliable if more expensive alternative to cat litter -

    https://www.kaizenbonsai.com/moler-m...-growing-media

    Like AlanF says, just sieve it to remove the dust and install.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  7. #165
    Thank you, for your responses Gents

  8. #166
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai GadgetBazza's Avatar
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    Can anyone remind me how much cat litter you need to fill a 29x29 basket please? (Or 24 of them).

  9. #167
    Well I guess even when you paid more you got more gram per gram / pound per pound value. Less work better quality, specially when AFS is going to/suppose to last a long time. Kudos. I rather pay more for high quality litter/clay than go cheap and then redo everything in no time.
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Sorry Kenny, I should have made clear, the cat litter I was comparing against was not pink Danish / moler clay, but sepiolite. The amount of dust and waste was vast.

    I've not tried moler cat litter but after my previous experience with cat litter I was happy to pay the bonsai tax for graded stuff and in comparison it was worlds apart, no dust and a quick rinse and it was in the pond.

    Maybe Moler cat litter isn't as difficult to clean as sepiolite litter.



    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  10. #168
    Just to add, there are clay based industrial absorbents available which Dr. Novak recommends as we know : T-Sorb/ Oil-dri and probably others with different names in various countries. One can look into those options and be careful about what all it is made up of. Most of them are clay or coconut husk based. Natural clay granules ... keywords. My logic says industrial absorbents should be more performance oriented as compared to cat litter.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanF View Post
    The choice of cat litter must be key to the success of Anoxic system. It has taken me buying and trying at least 5-6 different brands before choosing the right one. As has been said, quality and sources can change over time so what worked for someone in the past might not work now. First thing is to avoid any scented or clumping types also any that contain material other than "clay". As long as it is pure clay with a reasonable granule size and it survives immersion in water for 24hrs without degrading, it should be fine.
    I found that it was mostly the cheaper "budget" types which worked best- my original was from Wilko's but when I replaced it that litter had gone so I had to start over again. I just use a sieve to remove the fine dust when making the baskets and then give them a final rinse with a hosepipe before adding to the pond. The dust can be saved and used as "pond clay" as it is exactly the same stuff
    The baskets from the original system were as good as the day I made them after 2years( replaced due to KHV infection of pond).
    The other ingredient of laterite or Aquabasis is freely available so no issues there.
    Last edited by Rockfella; 18-06-2021 at 03:59 PM.

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  12. #169
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai AlanF's Avatar
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    Yes,, industrial absorbents as well as bonsai media are also suitable- the key being pure Palygorskite/ attapulgite clay

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palygorskite

    So in essence they are all the same thing but the amount of dust and quality will vary considerably as will the cost. Cat litter will be the cheapest option but it is more difficult to find one that is suitable.

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  14. #170
    That is why I was looking forward to look into stuff made of same type of clay but industrial absorbents/soils which might have better quality controls. I have also noticed cat owners prefer clumping litter so non-clumping might phase out soon/reduce in retail soon. Maybe I am thinking too much lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanF View Post
    Yes,, industrial absorbents as well as bonsai media are also suitable- the key being pure Palygorskite/ attapulgite clay

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palygorskite

    So in essence they are all the same thing but the amount of dust and quality will vary considerably as will the cost. Cat litter will be the cheapest option but it is more difficult to find one that is suitable.

  15. #171
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockfella View Post
    That is why I was looking forward to look into stuff made of same type of clay but industrial absorbents/soils which might have better quality controls. I have also noticed cat owners prefer clumping litter so non-clumping might phase out soon/reduce in retail soon. Maybe I am thinking too much lol.
    That is true.

    Non clumping litter is a right pain to clean out, we always use clumping.

    I always assume people who buy non clumping only do so because it is a natural product thus perceived as more environmentally friendly, and possibly it absorbs smells better.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

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  17. #172
    Baz, I've just used 8 X 30L bags to make 20 baskets. That's the kitty friend stuff from pets at home.

    But Allen F has just said not to use scented, and that stuff is definitely scented.

    Also as for quality, when I washed the dust off, there were clearly lots of gravel mixed in with the clay, so they are definitely cutting costs. Which I think is Molar clay.

    Jay

  18. #173
    I'm enjoying this thread, it's twisting around all over with the different aspects of anoxic related filtering.

    So here's another twist. Say my anoxic setup is really successful, and I have near zero Nitrate readings, how do I feed my plants, will they all die off?

    Jay

  19. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Megson View Post
    I'm enjoying this thread, it's twisting around all over with the different aspects of anoxic related filtering.

    So here's another twist. Say my anoxic setup is really successful, and I have near zero Nitrate readings, how do I feed my plants, will they all die off?

    Jay

    Near zero nitrate is the expected result for a mature anoxic system. It shows that the facultative bugs and the plants in the baskets are completely metabolising all the available ammonia and you don't have to worry about the plants, they will be getting their fair share of ammonia which is their "preferred" nutrient because it requires less energy for them to uptake than nitrate.

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  21. #175
    Manky, that's assuming I've got the plums to take my bio filter off line, and hearing from various forum members about their Anoxic systems shutting down after around a year, I'd say I'm very plumless.

    Jay

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  23. #176
    Manky,

    What is your take on the systems shutting down after a year. I can't remember who it was, but one of the forum members said both you and Kevin had looked into their system shutdown and couldn't find a reason for this.

    Jay

  24. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Megson View Post
    Manky,

    What is your take on the systems shutting down after a year. I can't remember who it was, but one of the forum members said both you and Kevin had looked into their system shutdown and couldn't find a reason for this.

    Jay
    That's correct, feedback shows that people who go fully anoxic report good results for many years with no sign of them shutting down and neither Kevin nor I can find any reason for an anoxic system suddenly failing nor is it a common problem.

    Many conventional (nitrogen cycle) systems are suddenly killed by external events such as a pond treatment or incomplete dechlorination etc. and there is no reason why an anoxic system couldn't be killed in the same way.

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  26. #178
    I was shocked when RS said above that he had PP'd his pond without affecting the anoxic, I would have thought it would be wiped out for sure.

    So you'd urge everyone to go full anoxic. How would you suggest doing that? Remove X amount of K1 (or other bio media) each week from your nitrogen filter, to gradually bring it off line and avoid ammonia spikes?

    Jay

  27. #179
    That's the way I suggest changing from conventional to anoxic filtration.

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  29. #180
    I too bottled out of ditching the Nitrogen Cycle component completely from the filter (I guess it will always be present to some extent on most pond surfaces anyway).
    What I did do was build in a diverter flap in my Profidrum Combi Bio to divert more and more water past the moving bed and straight to the anoxic baskets. I now have a situation where my Nitrate is staying low (between 5-10mg/l) and the moving bed is ticking over as a koi-keeper-comfort-blanket getting a small amount of Ammonia to keep it "primed" (I hope....).
    My DIY ponds from 1988 until present day.
    All can be found here:
    https://www.ukzero.com/pond.htm

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