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  1. #41
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    @Mike Bass
    Hi Mike - do you know what substrate your Catsan litter is made from? Couldn't see it on the pics you posted and I'm a bit worried that if it is the limestone + quartz mix that it may not be working right for you now @Manky Sanke has confirmed above.

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Thanks so much for the detailed reply Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

    Just one more quickie ... obviously the normal bacterial filter boosters won't work, but is there any other way of speeding up the maturation process in biocenosis baskets?

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    Not really, there are no cultures sold in bottles the way conventional filter starters are sold. These facultative bugs are ubiquitous in nature and are looking for a place to call home so just give them an anoxic basket and they'll set up a colony in it.

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  5. #43
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    Not really, there are no cultures sold in bottles the way conventional filter starters are sold. These facultative bugs are ubiquitous in nature and are looking for a place to call home so just give them an anoxic basket and they'll set up a colony in it.
    Good to know. Thanks Syd.

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  7. #44
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    Koiz,

    As AlanF said I simply skooshed it with a hose for 30 seconds and let it run off, put it in baskets and then into the pond. When I take them out of the pond there is generally some pink water coming out of the bottom, do I worry about it - no. There is a lot worse falling into my pond out of the sky or a koi's bottom.

    When I started my baskets three years ago I didn't worry about it either. Some things you just have to "take as read". There isn't a wrong way to do this if you follow Syd's instructions and OK some ways may be slightly better but probably not a lot. I simply added more baskets than I should need.

    Kenny

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  9. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    @Mike Bass
    Hi Mike - do you know what substrate your Catsan litter is made from? Couldn't see it on the pics you posted and I'm a bit worried that if it is the limestone + quartz mix that it may not be working right for you now @Manky Sanke has confirmed above.

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    Thanks Koiz & special thanks to Syd
    when I was reading the reply from Syd alarms bells were ringing , and 70 ltr of Catsan appears to be on its way to my daughters cat.
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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  11. #46
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Morning Kenny,

    Thanks for posting again. You may have missed it, but I'd already taken on board what you'd said in my experiments above and as per #29 I'd gone ahead with the 485g of Aquabasis... ie my 'big balls' Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?! Baskets have been in my pond all week and there was no discolouration at all on adding them so it all turned out good.

    I have learned lots from this thread that I hadn't gleaned elsewhere so I hope it's useful for others too. My only concern now is that the white Catsan litter Mike used, whilst non clumping, is not made of substrate that has a negative charge and hence won't work effectively as clay based litter.

    Catsan non clumping is made of limestone chalk and quartz with a predominantly positive charge which means it won't attract the positively charged ammonia molecules as Manky confirmed above.

    Perhaps the negative charge from the laterite in the middle will be enough to attract the ammonia through the Catsan, so it'd be useful to know how Mike's baskets are working for him.

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  12. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bass View Post
    Thanks Koiz & special thanks to Syd
    when I was reading the reply from Syd alarms bells were ringing , and 70 ltr of Catsan appears to be on its way to my daughters cat.
    Sorry Mike - posts crossed as we were writing at the same time! Glad we got to the bottom of the Catsan query Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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  13. #48
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Morning Kenny,

    Thanks for posting again. You may have missed it, but I'd already taken on board what you'd said in my experiments above and as per #29 I'd gone ahead with the 485g of Aquabasis... ie my 'big balls' Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?! Baskets have been in my pond all week and there was no discolouration at all on adding them so it all turned out good.

    I have learned lots from this thread that I hadn't gleaned elsewhere so I hope it's useful for others too. My only concern now is that the white Catsan litter Mike used, whilst non clumping, is not made of substrate that has a negative charge and hence won't work effectively as clay based litter.

    Catsan non clumping is made of limestone chalk and quartz with a predominantly positive charge which means it won't attract the positively charged ammonia molecules as Manky confirmed above.

    Perhaps the negative charge from the laterite in the middle will be enough to attract the ammonia through the Catsan, so it'd be useful to know how Mike's baskets are working for him.

    Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
    well the problem I have now is .....is it the 60+kg of Alfagrog & the 30+ ltr of K1 & 8+ layers of Japanese matting that is working in the main system matured over 3 years in the normal Ammonia/ Nitrite/ Nitrate Cycle or the 4 bigger baskets doing a biocensis attack on the Ammonia With 60+ Koi.....I DONT KNOW However in my aquarium with a low stocked tank & mini baskets the algae coating on the glass disappeared Completely only after adding the baskets ???
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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  15. #49
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    @Manky Sanke
    Morning Syd - just thinking - in light of the Catsan issue, might it be worth while to highlight the importence of using a negatively charged non-clumping litter in your guide.

    Currently the way its written seems to indicate that only the non-clumping element is the important factor, and indeed there is a photo of what looks very much like the white / grey Catsan under the pink / red clay litter in the panel of suitable litters.

    I'm not sure if there is a white / grey litter that would be made of a substrate with a negative charge so this could be causing a bit of confusion.

    Not being critical - just making a suggestion of how to make your excellent guide more fool-proof for numpties like me Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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  17. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    @Manky Sanke
    Morning Syd - just thinking - in light of the Catsan issue, might it be worth while to highlight the importence of using a negatively charged non-clumping litter in your guide.

    Currently the way its written seems to indicate that only the non-clumping element is the important factor, and indeed there is a photo of what looks very much like the white / grey Catsan under the pink / red clay litter in the panel of suitable litters.

    I'm not sure if there is a white / grey litter that would be made of a substrate with a negative charge so this could be causing a bit of confusion.

    Not being critical - just making a suggestion of how to make your excellent guide more fool-proof for numpties like me Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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    & numpties like me too My O level physics with Chemistry fried my brain back in the 70’s what chance has it got now?
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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  19. #51
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bass View Post
    well the problem I have now is .....is it the 60+kg of Alfagrog & the 30+ ltr of K1 & 8+ layers of Japanese matting that is working in the main system matured over 3 years in the normal Ammonia/ Nitrite/ Nitrate Cycle or the 4 bigger baskets doing a biocensis attack on the Ammonia With 60+ Koi.....I DONT KNOW However in my aquarium with a low stocked tank & mini baskets the algae coating on the glass disappeared Completely only after adding the baskets ???
    Well exactly! This was my point about the negative laterite still being able to attract through the positive Catsan. I'm guessing it possibly does.

    I suppose this really comes down to maximum efficiency and getting the most out of your anoxic set up. Without it being the only biological filter in place it'll be impossible to know for sure but I think it's safe to assume that using all negatively charged substrates in the baskets are going to give the best performance.


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  20. #52
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Well exactly! This was my point about about the negative laterite still being able to attract through the positive Catsan. I'm guessing it possibly does.

    I suppose this really comes down to maximum efficiency and getting the most out of your anoxic set up. Without it being the only biological filter in place it'll be impossible to know for sure but I think it's safe to assume that using all negatively charged substrates in the baskets are going to give the best performance.


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    Exactly I would like to give it the best chance possible of it working at the Optimum Level
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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  22. #53
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bass View Post
    Exactly I would like to give it the best chance possible of it working at the Optimum Level
    Yup 'optimal' is what we're after here!

    Syd - any chance you could try an experiment with those dilithium crystals in biocenosis baskets if you have any left over from the boiler? Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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  24. #54
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Yup 'optimal' is what we're after here!

    Syd - any chance you could try an experiment with those dilithium crystals in biocenosis baskets if you have any left over from the boiler? Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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    As Scotty would say....”Ya canni change the laws of physics “........quick beam me up
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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  26. #55
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Anoxic Filtration - The Final Frontier Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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  27. #56
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Anoxic Filtration - The Final Frontier Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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    To boldly go......yep pulling my hair out here
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  29. #57
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bass View Post
    To boldly go......yep pulling my hair out here
    Hahaha - yeah - pulling hair out seems to be all part of the koi 'hobby' Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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  30. #58
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    Hahaha - yeah - pulling hair out seems to be all part of the koi 'hobby' Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!

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    koi a dream that becomes a hobby......a hobby that becomes an obsession.......the obsession that becomes a nightmare
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  32. #59
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Koiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bass View Post
    koi a dream that becomes a hobby......a hobby that becomes an obsession.......the obsession that becomes a nightmare
    That is a 100% accurate description of how its been for me since June last year. In truth, it has only been knowing that I'm not alone in my experiences from being part of this wonderful forum that has kept me sane, and given me the fortitude to keep going with it all. For all the variety of pets I've had in my lifetime so far, nothing has been as difficult as keeping koi healthy and happy, nor given me such highs and lows - often in the same day!

    As the Koi Organisation International slogan says "if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right".

    Which would be fine if only there wasn't so much variation of what 'right' actually is Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!



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  33. #60
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koiz View Post
    That is a 100% accurate description of how its been for me since June last year. In truth, it has only been knowing that I'm not alone in my experiences from being part of this wonderful forum that has kept me sane, and given me the fortitude to keep going with it all. For all the variety of pets I've had in my lifetime so far, nothing has been as difficult as keeping koi healthy and happy, nor given me such highs and lows - often in the same day!

    As the Koi Organisation International slogan says "if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right".

    Which would be fine if only there wasn't so much variation of what 'right' actually is Washing Cat Litter For Biocenosis Baskets - When Will It End?!



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    For several years I kept Raptors both Owls & Falcons/ Hawks & displayed at Medieval events& did some TV & video work with them......despite having 6 different types Saker/ Gyr Saker /Kestrals / Barn Owls /Tawney/ Harris Hawk & all the legal implications of being custodian to protected species, they were never as much trouble to keep as Koi............although chasing over fields after them is something I don’t have with the Koi
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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