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Thread: Drum Levels

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by wda24729 View Post
    Really appreciate your reply. That all makes sense, and slightly frustrating as being new to this, did it all under instruction from an 'expert',

    There's no way I can get extra supply to the filter now as the pumphouse is remote with all pipework coming up through a concrete slab, unless there are any other suggestions?

    What I cant understand is when I drained the filter and then opened the inlet valves, the water crashed through, but even if I turn the pumps down, the levels still drop to the same as when on 100%,

    Skimmer certainly seems to be pulling strong but thinking about it, that might be the side which isn't providing enough as the base of the skimmer is a 3" outlet to 4" pipe, so the restriction might be there.

    I think all I can do is drill a drain hole slightly above the max dirty water side with a valve which I can close if I need to turn the pumps off (to save loosing the water as it rises back to pond level), This would at least give me the safety of the pond overflow issue
    Hang on, didn’t you say your water levels were ok when you turn everything off?
    It was that you were worried that if it rained your pond would overflow?
    If your pond level rises a few millimetres then the level on clean side of drum will rise the same and then drain down the waste chute surely? Fill your pond up a bit more a try before drilling a hole you might not need to....presumably your waste chute goes into a drain rather than a small container then that might not be a great solution.
    Can you open up the outlet on your skimmer to 4”? That’s quite a common modification. It will help massively.
    There’s a huge difference between 4” and 3” in terms of how much flow you’d get.
    In theory you should be able to wind both pumps up full blast and 2 x 4” supplies would be adequate to keep your drum level on the clean side correct.
    What type of skimmer do you have?


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  2. #22
    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    The drain is on the dirty side, so when its running, the water level on the dirty side is just below the minimum mark. This means to get the level up to where it would drain, the level in the pond would have to rise the same amount, and thats way too much presently....that's correct I think?

    I cant raise the pond level much more or else it will be passing the top of the skimmer line

    Skimmer is a Certiken CT100. It was modified to take the 3" but now like you say, 4" would have been the way to go. Nightmare to remove it now as its built into the blockwork and GRP lining.

    I'll get some photos if that helps
    Last edited by wda24729; 06-06-2020 at 09:13 AM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    Lets start at the beginning.Where is the water level in the dirty side in relation to the TOP of the waste chute when the pump is OFF

  4. #24
    Have I not just explained all that?
    It will be level, 100% guaranteed.
    In an open system gravity fed with no flow it can’t be anything else. It’s only when flow is introduced it will drop on the dirty side.
    This is mine in “full” mode, as I’m currently tricking water in the excess is going over the waste chute.

    This is dirty side, drum about to clean, level difference of around 50mm
    After clean it will be a few mm lower then dirty side due to resistance of screen.



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  5. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Have I not just explained all that?
    It will be level, 100% guaranteed.
    In an open system gravity fed with no flow it can’t be anything else. It’s only when flow is introduced it will drop on the dirty side.
    This is mine in “full” mode, as I’m currently tricking water in the excess is going over the waste chute.

    This is dirty side, drum about to clean, level difference of around 50mm
    After clean it will be a few mm lower then dirty side due to resistance of screen.



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    Was that directed at me? I had a synergy 35 for two years and have fitted them for friends with no problems whatsoever so i know how they run.I sold mine and the buyer assured me he knew how to fit it.Two weeks later he rang because he couldnt get it working right .He had fitted it backwards and had the water level 10mm under the BOTTOM of the chute.Thats why i said to start from the beginning .Drum height is paramount but you would be suprised how many people get it wrong .

  6. #26
    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    When pumps are switched off , its about 10mm lower than than the maximum level in the filter. I was told to install the top of the filter 125mm above pond water line which equates to about the 10mm internal level. Ive also had this confirmed as correct by Aquasource.

    And to answer the other question, as Im sure you know the maximum mark is level with the top of the shute, so 10mm below shute. The photo provided shows exactly that.
    Last edited by wda24729; 06-06-2020 at 11:35 AM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    So you have the level bang on.Thats ruled that out.What pumps are you using bud

  8. #28
    It was yea but not is a bad way, so don’t get your knickers in a twist lol

    If anyone fits a drum round the wrong way then frankly they deserve all the grief they get as they’re obviously an idiot and should probably get rid of their pond and keep Gerbils.

    So, assuming the OP isn’t a complete cock, what’s the level in the dirty side at “off” for got do with anything?
    I’m willing to eat humble pie if I’m wrong but I’ll be the same as the clean side, impossible for it not to be, even if it was back to front. Until it’s running it’s just another box in the system.

    If it’s round the wrong way then gets turned on then yes, completely different set of circumstances agree.

    I can’t wait to find out now Drum LevelsDrum Levels


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  9. #29
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    If the level in the dirty side when the pump is off is right,it eliminates the thought that the drum is the wrong height..Its a starting point..Of course it will be the same height as the clean side when the pumps are off and the drum mesh is clean.. 30,000L an hour is a lot to get through a Synergy 35(if the pumps are doing that)

  10. #30
    It wouldn’t matter if the screen was completely bunged up, the water would still be level as it would flow in through the dirty side when everything was off.
    As I said previously, the OP isn’t getting enough water into the drum to replenish what’s being pumped out.
    I still don’t get why he’d want to drill an overflow in the drum, something doesn’t make sense. The chute is the overflow unless the pond is absolutely brimming to the top already???


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  11. #31
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    Thats what i cant work out either. .Fit the drum at required height.Feed with pond water.Pump out on a gravity fed circulatory system.If the drum needed a hole it would come with one..I do think the synergy will struggle at 30,000 L/Hr anyway. My profi combi 20 will get nowhere near 20,000L/hr ..I would hazard a guess at bottom drain lid being too tight to the base

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  13. #32

  14. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    Thats what i cant work out either. .Fit the drum at required height.Feed with pond water.Pump out on a gravity fed circulatory system.If the drum needed a hole it would come with one..I do think the synergy will struggle at 30,000 L/Hr anyway. My profi combi 20 will get nowhere near 20,000L/hr ..I would hazard a guess at bottom drain lid being too tight to the base
    I’ve a 35 supplies by 2x4” feeds, a skimmer and BD. 2xAuga 20k variflows.
    When the drum is clean I can whack the pumps up full blast and it’ll just about keep up but as soon as the dirty side is half full it’ll run dry so “35” is optimistic to say the least.
    When I speak to Deano next I’ll tell him to put another inlet in a 35 lol
    I posted earlier in the week on another thread if I were doing it again I’d go “55”.
    The OP’s problem imo is related to being borderline on flow from bottom drain and the skimmer only having a 3” outlet. He also mentions 90 degree bends which if they’re elbows instead of swept bends could be contributing massively to loss of flow.
    I’d check both lines by shitting off one at a time and seeing what difference it makes. For a quick check you can feel the flow if you put you hand in the drum at each inlet to compare. You can feel it if the difference is significant.
    Open the bottom drain up a bit as well to try and also close it up and try.
    Bit of experimentation required I think.
    And if he can get to the back underneath of the skimmer then I’d be modifying it to 4” as other members have done. If I get a chance I’ll search a few threads where this has been done before, I’m pretty sure a Certikin skimmer exits behind the pond wall as 99% of them do. It’s a faff but worth doing for the sake of a rubber boot, a bit of pipe and some glue.


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  15. #34
    Member Rank = Tosai wda24729's Avatar
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    Ok - I thought I'd post up some photos. The first one is the level with all pumps switch off. I had dropped the level earlier this morning as it was too close to the top of the skimmer, but still only measure 15mm but after speaking with Aquasource, 20mm is still ok. .

    The second photo is when the pumps are running. I did a quick test with a stopwatch and it does appear the pumps are draining quicker than the drum is being replenished. No idea how as only swept bends used.

    DSC03080.JPGDSC03081.JPG

  16. #35
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    How many gallons is your pond bud

  17. #36

    Drum Levels

    That’s a shedload of drawdown, I’d try topping your pond up when it’s running also to see if that level rises but then you’ll get overflow when and if you turn the pumps off.
    Are you 100% sure your valves on your supplies are fully open?


    Edit...have you got a shower running by any chance?

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  18. #37
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    Isn’t it just Something is odd to me

  19. #38
    I often get this with my RDF which is a Burton drum. I was pulling my hair out as The feed in wouldnt keep pace with what’s going out , so I flush my valves a few times and the level comes bk up. A week or so goes by and same thing happens so I’m pretty sure what you have is similar Ie lack of flow in. That could be the bd hat set too low, or a Slight blockage or simply not enough pipework to allow sufficient flow in. A bd on 4 inch pipes allows around 10k gallons I’m told but once you put bends in and a bit of crap that’ll slow. To combat this problem I’m currently planning an extra skimmer With 4”
    Pipework to give me that extra flow and I’ll be resetting my bd covers a bit higher. I’ll also be giving them a good clean with a k’archer drain rod. It’s annoying and a bit of a rave now but worth it in the end. My pond was only built 6 months ago btw so new pipework etc but had this problem from day one - sadly the so called ‘expert’ who sold me the gear and fitted it vanished after a catalogue of errors !!! This being one of them . Good luck m8 am sure you’ll get it sorted if you increase the flow in

  20. #39
    A 4” pipe will give you around 5k gallons without any restrictions, probably substantially less in a real life pond situation with a couple of 90 degree bends chucked in.


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  21. #40
    Strewth that’s far less than I thought - just goes to show I need that extra line in ASAP !

 

 
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