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  1. #21
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Medo pumps flow rating is at a rated operating pressure (and at 60Hz mains) so the UK rating figures change that being at 50Hz (as the compressor works at 1/2 mains AC frequency), the link provides the flow rate vs pressure.

    LA-28 is probably not suited to 2m (almost 10lph) but uses 29W for 28lph at 1.1m (at 50Hz)
    LA-45: https://www.nitto-kohki.eu/en/produc...m/la-45-b.html provides 45lph at 1.1m drops to ~27lpm at 2m (@50Hz 47W)
    LA-60: https://www.nitto-kohki.eu/en/produc...m/la-60-b.html provides closer to 70lpm at 1.5m drops to 40lpm at a depth of 2m (@50Hz 64W).

    So with 20-30lph/1000 gallon and the pond being about 1500 gallons that's 30-45lph for the pond - given pumps degrade in performance over time - that's an LA-60.
    With say 28lph for the bio then that's simply a LA-28 running 24/7 on the bio.

    Interesting that EA 75 is listed at 43W where as the LA-60 is listed at 64W. Sorry for over analysing the marketing bumph but there's a 20W difference between the two!

    Anyone measured the mains power consumption on their EA pumps?

    Spending >100 on a small pump and 180 on a LA-60 seems excessive, given that the manufacturer states a 6 year lifetime and the operating cost of electricity is higher. Especially with an EA 75 being £150 that could power the bio and a single bottom drain.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    Hi blows are the epitome of power and reliability.Ive got two XP 80.s,one running the bottom drain and bio and a spare.Ive also got a 40 as an emergency or supplementary pump if i have to treat the water...They are well worth the money IMO

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  5. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    I’d be inclined to agree.

    Cheers

    Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    Hi blows are the epitome of power and reliability.Ive got two XP 80.s,one running the bottom drain and bio and a spare.Ive also got a 40 as an emergency or supplementary pump if i have to treat the water...They are well worth the money IMO
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  7. #24
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Just looking at the HiBlow (log for 40,60 & 80 at the bottom of this page): https://hiblow.co.uk/product/hiblow-xp80/ note that 2 meters = 0.2bar or 20kpa on the graph. With 50Hz giving slightly less lph.

    For the HiBlow (linear diaphragm)
    XP40 = 40lpm at 1.2m, 20lpm at 2m for 30W
    XP-60 = 60lpm at 1.4m, ~36lpm at 2m for 39W
    XP-80 = 80lpm at 1.4m, 60lpm at 2m for 58W

    A quick compare the pumps (reading approx value from manufacturer graphs at 50Hz), servicing from the manufacturer manuals/FAQ:

    1.1m
    lpm
    ~1.5m
    lpm
    2.0m
    lpm
    Wattage
    @ 50Hz
    kW/year (@18p/kWh)
    24 hours/365days
    Servicing kit
    cost & type
    Unit Cost
    approx
    AquaOxy500 8 - - 8 W 70 (£12)
    HiBlow HP-20 18 12 5 17 W 148 (£26) £125
    Medo LA-28B 32 25 6 29 W 254 (£45) £30 full £99-110
    C.Austen ET-30 38 29 21 25 W £76
    HiBlow XP-40 45 35 20 30 W 262 (£47) £140
    Medo LA-45C 50 42 27 47 W 411 (£73) £26 full £110-135
    C. Austen ET-40 55 44 30 30 W £88
    Jebao PA45 ? ? ? ? £63
    HiBlow XP-60 70 55 36 39 W 341 (£61) £60 full £198
    Medo LA-60B 82 68 39 64 W 560 (£100) £54 full £169-185
    C.Austen ET-60 78 62 43 55 W £98
    Jebao PA60 68 55 45 38 W £75
    EA 70 <52 ? ? 34W £140
    EA 75 <59 ? ? 44W £170
    HiBow XP-80 90 79 60 58 W 508 (£91) £70 full
    (60 dia only)
    £199
    Medo LA-80B 97 87 58 85 W 744 (£133) £50 full £184-215
    Jebao PA80 93 80 60 55 W £90

    HiBlow suggest servicing any sign or degrade (gut feeling 3 years), or 5 years max. Medo is 24 months. Charles Austen quotes 18 months! I'd be looking at having the pumps being able to provide the rate I need at 75% duty cycle max. Tha AquaOxy500 is the current old pump just for comparison. Also the Charles Austen figures seem to be a little too good (ie flow rates from they graphs) vs the power consumption vs the price.

    Now I know the HiBlow will last longer than the 2 year guarantee on a diaphragm, and the Medo longer than 24 months for the servicing. The issue is I know that diagrams tend to loose their efficiency after about 3 years, so I would probably service after 3 years for each. You can pick up the older (and respected) HiBlow HP series for cheaper, the XP is the replacement.
    The LA-80 on 50Hz returns worse flow rate than 60Hz after about 1.5m by almost 10lph difference between 50 & 60Hz at the same depth!

    Hmm.. pretty damning when you take into account the cost of purchase.


    One interesting thing is that you could use an airlift return - essentially replacing the pump on a gravity fed filter, seems 20lpm into a 2" pipe but 40lpm into a 3" pipe gave 4200gph
    If an airlift return from the bio worked that well, the pump doesn't need to run 24/7. Food for thought given a 20,000lph (4400gph) pump will draw 190W.

    Hmm things you could do with a couple of air diversion valves and timers..

    Edit: added the Evolution Aqua 70 and 75 ('diaphragm' design)Their quoted performance seems shockingly bad compared to the competition! No graph just one value at 1m quoted.They almost seem like 40 size!

    Edit2: added the Jabao (these are visually identical inside to the HiBlow but a Chinese copy of the Japanese pump), stats taken from graph here in India. Graph a little small and doesn't indicate if it's 50 or 60Hz

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  9. #25
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    So Tony at Draco said due to the curved bottom, the drum cycles better so less air is needed - 50lph should be more than enough..

    The depth of the Bio water level is 60cm, the HiBlow XP-40 seems to push about 55 lim at that depth which should be more than enough and still not be too maxed out.

    Seems the 40 size will work for the bio and still have some capacity for a pond air stone in the current pond (so -8W by not using the old pump)

    German clinical precision in reviewing the HP-40 30W, and putting out about 30 lpm at almost 2 meters.


    If that's the same with the HiBlow XP-40 then it'll be running 22W effectively (retiring the old 8W pump). That's acceptable.

    I can then worry about the air for the bottom drain later with a second larger pump running perhaps 1/2 time.

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  11. #26
    I’ve got a 70l EA running my bottom drain which is about 7m away via 1/2” airline. I found it too powerful so bled off some air to an airstone in the clean side of my drum.
    Now that stone (a big one!) is at the bottom of 5’ of 4” pressure pipe with a 2” outlet at the top forming an air lift.
    Works bloody brilliantly. I’ve put a soil vent pipe grille over the bottom and stuck an old orange funnel on the top and it’s all held together with gaffer tape and hung in the corner of the pond off a bungee. All very Heath Robinson but it really shifts some water!!!
    Gonna make a nice one in couple of weeks just to add a bit more circulation as have a spare 4” swept bend and a tee kicking around.
    Just waiting for someone to grab me a fancy coupling in 5” then I’m good to go.
    I love airlifts, defiantly should have used them properly from the off.
    I keep looking at my pond wondering if I could get away with adding a little collector pit to one side without the Mrs sussing out that I’ve pinched some more garden


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  13. #27
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Hmm a little undecided - trying to decide on a XP-40 or an XP-60. Both would be fine with the bio. Just don't understand how much lpm turns a bottom drain into a jacuzzi. It's a difficult thing because people have different pumps, depths and some are running multiple outlets. It sounds like people settle towards 15-20lpm at depth to provide movement but not boil it. I may setup an air lift as an option as a return - I'd simply switch the pump off and close a valve, leaving the airlift to draw water through the filtration.


    For the BD I will probably go for the JBR Bottom Drain and have a screw in flat air stone so I'm erring towards the XP-60.

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  15. #28
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Interesting bit about the older HP vs XP HoBlow models:


    It also seems the newer XP and other 'new' models of pumps have rare earth magnets so the compressor uses less power and doesn't heat up.

  16. #29
    Lots of variables with air pumps.
    Depth, hose size, hose length, make.
    For example, my bottom drain is around 5m from pumps, it’s a JBR so hard piped air line underground for about 3.5m the rest in 1/2” hose.
    With an EA70 on full blast it’s too far too powerful for the diffuser alone but that pump isn’t quite man enough to run my airlift and the diffuser to my satisfaction. If running separate pumps I’d probably halve the output pricing the pump could handle the depth.
    However, with a Hiblow 80, I can wind down the diffuser to give a gentle stream of air and the airlift positively gushes. It’s shifting a huge amount of water. It may even work better if I drilled the airstone plastic connector out a bit as well.
    As it it, it’s great, about to put an air chamber at the bottom so that’s change things again.
    It’s probably best to have too much air than too little at least then you could bleed some air off if necessary it it’s a right faff if you don’t have enough but then it’s a waste of energy to have too much.
    I would have liked to have the opportunity of trying a couple of different pumps really but unless you know someone with a pump you can borrow for a few hours it’s a bit suck it and see.
    No two ponds are alike so it’s a tricky decision to make based on recommendation alone.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #30
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I've got the xp40 running my jbr bottom drain which is at 2m depth and i'd say it's a bit too much air if anything.

    And I have a xp80 running an airlift at 1.8m depth and my bio tank (which has 250l of K1) which is at 70cm depth and has a 12" rubber air disc plus 2 large air stones keeping it all turning over. Again the pump rating is more than adequate for my set up and I probably could've got away with the xp 60 but didn't want to be lacking air.

    I found it hard to decide what air pumps to get as I wanted to be as efficient as possible, but not be under gunned.

    I must say, the Hi Blows xp's seem to be good pumps.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

  18. #31
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    The issue is everyone tends to think in terms of pump manufacturer LPM which all have different LPM-vs-depth performance.

    With the new pond now being larger that originally planned, it's air requirements are now (all based pump ratings, or part of):
    1x JBR Aerated BD = 20 lpm
    4" airlift = 20-40lpm
    4" airlift = 20-40lpm
    1x Bio = 10-20 lpm

    The airlifts are providing aeration so they would be like having two airstones going in the pond. So my gut feeling is an XP-80 (~68lpm @ 1.75m) is likely to drive the above.

 

 
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