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Thread: Bakki rivers
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15-12-2019, 10:06 AM #1
Bakki rivers
What are peoples thoughts on bakki Rivers.The ones ive seen seem to track water,but they are quiet and unobtrusive.I fancy having one custom made with a void at the bottom so i could aerate to stop tracking I was thinking maybe jap matting cartridges and siporax .Ive bought a profi combi as i sold my Synergy drum when i packed in so was looking for some additional different filtration after the k1 Cheers
Last edited by big h; 15-12-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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17-12-2019, 07:00 AM #2
Any opinions? good or bad .
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17-12-2019, 08:44 AM #3
I don t know much about them H. as never had one. but heres a link
might help you make your mind up
fred
https://www.yorkshiresectionbkks.co....i-shower-river
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big h Thanked / Liked this Post
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17-12-2019, 08:53 AM #4
The forum is a bit quiet this time of year, you might struggle for more than the odd reply mate.
Presumably you’ve seen Julian’s YouTube stuff ?
Seem like an Ok idea, basically a horizontal trickle tower rather than a full on Bakki.
I’ve not got any experience of one myself.
How about a run of anoxic baskets instead? You wouldn’t need an air pump in it, you could have a moderate flow so cheap to run. The baskets themselves are cheap to make, good have to house them in something, how were you thinking about mounting/locating your BR?
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17-12-2019, 10:54 AM #5
why not a bakki with an underwater pipe return instead of normal weir paul,stick it in shed and forget about it,plus in shed shouldnt cool water in winter,,,andi
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17-12-2019, 05:44 PM #6
Thanks for the replies..Ive seen the link .I did think about a shower inside the filter room but they are still noisy.Its only supplemental filtration as i will have 100L of k1 in the profi combi..I just fancy something different.I was thinking of stacking the Siporax neatly so water ran through equally and aerating from underneath.We all know how water loves to track.Cheers
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17-12-2019, 06:13 PM #7
hi , i have my shower inside the filter house and it better than out on the pond wall .
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17-12-2019, 07:38 PM #8
i have a 1200mm 2 tier shower with 15000 litres going over it an hour and you can hardly hear it, i find its usually the steel ones are really noisy, i dont know if my shower being a 2 tier has anything to do with it being quiet maybe, i have the other bit in the garage i might put it on one day and see
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17-12-2019, 08:12 PM #9
Mines in my garage also, the air pump is nosier. Mine is a bit different to normal though. Return is 4” underwater.
Pump is 20k running at 75% with hardly any significant pipework loss
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18-12-2019, 12:30 PM #10
you could always just add an extra bio chamber paul,ive got a steel nexus chamber ive never used,got it off this bloke near goole years ago on a whim hahahahaha,,,,andi
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18-12-2019, 08:47 PM #11
Those Goolies will sell you anything Andi
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08-02-2020, 04:25 AM #12
@bigcarpchaser: that looks very similar to a Zakki - did you buy it from DKI in the USA, or did you find a different source for the large blocks of ceramic? (I know they can be bought from China, for example)
As for so-called bakki rivers - I share your concerns about tracking - so much so, that I struggle to see the merits of bakki rivers, really.
I am aware of Adam Julyan's - he seems like a thoroughly likeable chap, and very knowledgeable, but I am not at all convinced that his bakki river isn't tracking like crazy.
Here's a different (and just as flawed) take on the theme, which you probably wouldn't find by searching youtube for 'bakki river':
A Koi Pond Filtration (Sylvan Chaitram} - YouTube
Putting aside temperature-loss concerns of Bakki showers, and just thinking about the noise issue, one possibility to minimise noise, instead of a bakki river, might be to run another bakki shower, but slowly, and perhaps with very minimal gaps between the layers (or slabs of japmat sandwiched between the ceramic tiers), so that the water doesn't 'smash' and 'crash' as much as a conventional bakki shower. Smashing & crashing of water in a bakki shower definitely has some technical merits, but you are seeking a relatively quiet supplemental filter, so why not build a slow-flowing (or moderately fast-flowing but with minimal media layer gaps) bakki shower?
(taking a momentary tangent, for a second: it's funny, but I've never seen anyone stuff 6-inch high stacks of japmat between each of the tiers of their bakki shower, during winter, but I am confident that, in addition to making it quieter, it would reduce the amount of temperature loss. On a main/primary bakki shower, you'd want to remove any japmat during warmer months, to benefit from the smashing of the water and the improved nitrogen/oxygen/carbon-dioxide gaseous exchange, of course).
Or, if the idea of a slow and/or quietened bakki doesn't appeal (I know it isn't perfect, either), I suppose you could cast your eye over what the Germans often do - not a river, but very simply a bloody big chamber stuffed with multiple bags of K1 or siporax, etc. (with only minimal aeration, so as to steer the biology towards a bit of de-nitrification after your earlier moving bed chamber, blasted with copious oxygen, has first done a load of nitrification). You may recall me posting a few videos about this, a while back, in another thread
I only mention that particular German approach because, let's face it, it's tantamount to being an uber-short bakki river, which, if you're keen on a bakki river, you might just as well choose as the easy option and be done with it, given that most bakki rivers only suffer from tracking throughout their extensive length, anyway... so why not spare yourself the self-defeating effort of an elaborate build that results in a long series of tracking flaws, and instead have just one tracking flaw in the space of a simple short chamber, which can be somewhat improved through the use of well-implemented diffusion manifolds at the inlet and outlet. It might also be a little bit easier to remove and manually flush the media, periodically.
If you're really dead-set on a bakki river, then I suppose you could forcibly diffuse the water at each and every bend, so that the volume of moving water is unable to flow entirely via the shortest route, and therefore must flow in a more even manner, whether it likes it or not. There would probably be more frictional losses due to the multiple diffusers, however. It also occurs to me (perhaps illogically, as I'm very tired) that altering the cross-sectional aspect-ratio of the river, in relation to the specific orientation of the bends, might improve efficiency in relation to reducing tracking, but I'm far too tired to elaborate on that idea right now. Lastly, it occurs to me that deliberately installing angled baffles, at strategic junctures in the river (e.g. at bends, where tracking is likely to occur) could deliberately induce turbulence (and thus mixing) of the water, which might mitigate tracking tendencies, to some degree, however slight.
I'm only thinking out loud, so please don't, anyone, hold me to it - it's 4am, as I type this, so I may not be thinking clearly! hahaLast edited by MustBeSomethingInTheWater; 08-02-2020 at 05:07 AM.
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bigcarpchaser, Ajm Thanked / Liked this Post
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08-02-2020, 07:54 AM #13
Thanks for the post.I intend building a river with no bends,as in one long low custom made chamber. I want it low so its unobtrusive.I was thinking a void at the bottom with microbubbler diffusers along its full length .All problems can be overcome with a bit of thought.For now i will see how the micro k1 and pond pads perform.Cheers
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freddyboy, MustBeSomethingInTheWater Thanked / Liked this Post
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08-02-2020, 09:46 AM #14
@MBSITW...
I was playing with this stuff before Zak but I don’t have the engineering skills he has. We’ve corresponded and he’s a good guy. Very clever.
I know what the Chinese stuff is...and what’s in it, probably as you do no doubt as you seem to be pretty well clued up on the actual real life used for half the stuff used in pond filtration.
Most of it is used for filtering molten metals and gas.
I spent a good few years looking at various “ceramic” media and had samples come over from China and they don’t send the for free either.
I also got some “Rio” direct from the manufacturer however, no way they make it themselves, it’s exactly the same as the Chinese stuff even down to the packaging, and I had one block literally fall to bits after a couple of weeks testing. Maybe it was just a dodgy one, I’m not sure.
Ultimately, I ended up (after a serious amounts of emails) finding someone in Europe to make some with no “added extras” (phosphates usually) and that is what you see in my filter. The phosphates dissolve in water and that’s why it crumbles. They don’t dissolve in molten aluminium lol
The manufacturer has given me a figure of 80% porosity which is excellent and I did some very rough calculations to work out surface area based on spheres of 2mm and it’s immense.
Whether it “works” or not is unclear as I need to fully stock my pond and get my levels back under control then I’ll turn isolate it for a few days and see if my levels change for the worse.
Not sure if I’ll ever get around to selling any, it’s not cheap but then again, you only need half the amount compared to BHM which makes the required housing for it, and the pump etc, a lot smaller.
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08-02-2020, 10:45 AM #15
Hi , i done my diy shower with media for less than £100 thats 30kg of grog and the tub its 60cm x40cm x 18cm and 6 boxes high on a 10.000 lt pump with 2" return pipe been running well.
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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08-02-2020, 01:23 PM #16
That’s cool bud. If it works for you then that’s great. A lot depends on budget, expectations, fish stocks, feeding levels.
If you have say 12 fish around 90cm in 5-10,000 gallons and you’re feeding bucketloads every day then your 30kg of grog isn’t gonna do a great deal.
Grog is cheap though and you can always add more as required eh?
It’s a good place to start though for sure and lets face it, we’re not all made of money, I’m certainly not lol
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08-02-2020, 01:39 PM #17
Just done it as a extra bio , all that k1 in the moving beds does the job but as your always going to put just the 1 extra koi in now and then thinking its ok . I cant help myself sometimes. Best play it safe
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08-02-2020, 02:40 PM #18
A very insightful post, and I applaud your resourcefulness in finding a european manufacturer for your requirements. I am aware of contaminants being a risk with Chinese industrial porous ceramics (be they aluminosilicates or the silicon carbide variants), but I wasn't aware that phosphates were on the list of contaminants, so thanks for expanding my understanding of the topic! mates cheers emoticon.gif
Your suspicion of phosphate dissolving from some Chinese ceramic and perhaps thereby compromising its structural integrity is interesting. I recall Cermedia/MarinePure aluminosilicate having problems with erosion, but I'm under the impression that that particular ceramic is manufactured in the USA, so perhaps posphorous wasn't a culprit for them - I don't know.
Although it's not as robust as BHM (which, of course, is intended for smashing & pummeling high flows of water), I like how porous your type of ceramic is (and nice big pores, which won't rapidly clog with bio film), and have long believed there is a place in the hobby for both types. Please let me/us know how things work out for your ceramic, as time goes by.
Ah, I see. Yes, long, low, and with no bends could be quite viable, couldn't it? I'm so used to people in the UK having relatively small filters that I didn't expect you to consider a long run. Good luck!Last edited by MustBeSomethingInTheWater; 08-02-2020 at 02:52 PM.
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08-02-2020, 03:07 PM #19
I was hoping to find someone in the UK to sort some ceramic out. I contacted a fair few “technical ceramic” manufacturers and none of them were interested despite it being a potentially big market. If you could get something close to BHM for say half the money you’d shift shedloads I’m sure.
To make it worthwhile to import from say China, you have to bring in around a tonne of material and the dealers selling the BHM knockoff stuff wouldn’t bring it over if they couldn’t sell it.
I’m also not convinced what’s over here had been tested for any length of time.
I didn’t like to mention any brand names of media that fell apart but guess it’s pretty well know for it not to be a problem.
Where about are you located MBSITW?
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09-02-2020, 07:21 PM #20
As I understand it, The whole point of a bakki shower is to replicate a wet/dry filter with water cascading across the media randomly. A bakki river has its benefits as extra filtration but its as effective as putting media in a box filter. So unless its a noisy cascading shower which provides the maximum benefits for your expensive media, then you can configure it exactly how you want, but it will have no extra benefits over a box full of the same media.
The solution is probably a longer two tier shower with less flow as others have suggested.Last edited by Alburglar; 09-02-2020 at 08:36 PM.
2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.
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john1, MustBeSomethingInTheWater Thanked / Liked this Post
The Daily pond temp thread
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