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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    Fines issue and running a drum filter

    Basically new pond 22500 litres, 2 bottom drains to one RDF. RDF capable of 40,000 litres. Return pump is 15,000 lph.
    Iím starting to get a lot of fines in the water now and itís only been running 3 weeks. Only have 4 koi in there and all water parameters are good.
    Question is what am I doing wrong do you think? Is it that the pump isnít turning the water over quick enough?

    Wayne



  2. #2
    IMO you have to adjust flow to find an optimal level for clarity

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    whats after the drum,seperate bio chamber or is it a combi,also do you have a uv on,is the pond open or covered,any trees nearby,is it just the one pump and how many returns do you have,you may not have enough water movement back to pond,,,,andi

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I can't answer really asnwer the question and suspect others can't without some more info, but I'll have a stab at guessing some possibilities which are on the assumption everything is set up correctly and nothing is faulty.

    The first thing I'd try is to turn your pump down and see if it makes a difference, say 11,000 lph and see if anything changes.

    Some possibilities I guess could be:

    • Drum mesh not fine enough
    • Water level incorrect causing high pressure inside the drum to pull dirt through drum mesh
    • Drum not set-up correctly, or gaps between the clean and dirty side.
    • A sudden massive algae die-off that will take a week or so to clear (i.e Algae is dying off quicker than the drum is removing it - this happened to me around 2 weeks after I installed the drum and it took about a week to clear).
    • Or the fines you refer to aren't fines but more tannins (brown water) or DOCs (organics) associated with the maturing of a new pond.

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  8. #5
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    It’s a combi drum, UV is submerged under the drum, ponds open with just one tree across the road at the front of the house so just the odd stray leaf gets into the pond, one return to the pump but then split off into two pipes one each end of the pond. Hope that helps.

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  10. #6
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    The water night is at its max level within the drum. What’s tannies? Never heard of them before and as it’s a brand new pond it may be. I’ll take a sample and see what colour it is.

  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I guess the tannins part is irrelevant really, just trying to establish if its definitely fines and not discoloured or brown water which you sometimes get a spell of as a new pond matures.

    Have a look through this thread (don't need to read it, just look at pics and videos) and you can see the fines in my pond before and after drum installation:

    Pics are on page 1, 10 and after pics on page 13 from memory.

    http://www.koiforum.uk/water-treatme...es-issues.html
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 05-10-2019 at 12:31 PM.

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  13. #8
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    It’s not as large as that but just had a look at my drum and it did a wash. After it had done a wash I could see green cloudiness off the drum on the clean side. Do you think I need a finer mesh? I haven’t a clue what’s on it now.

  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    does drum have 2 outlets or just the one,if 2 then i would whack a couple of 20000 variable flow pumps on,one on each return instead of the split after one 15000,im guessing the 15000 isnt variable,variables would save you money in long run and you can vari flow to get a nice pull on each,i would say your not pulling water through quick enough,my pond holds roughly same as yours 5000g and run 2 small drums returning over a shower and a nexus on skimmer,ive got 3 vari flows on,1 x 20000 on each drum and a 12000 on skimmer,both 20k are running at 70% so about 15000lph and the 12000 is pulling about 8000lph,how often does your drum clean?,mine are about every 20-30 mins,it will take time to clear the water,also you may be suffering an algae bloom due to new pond syndrome,you could lower the wash sensor so drum cleans more frequent which would get dirt out quicker,,,,,,andi

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  16. #10
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    It’s not cleaning anywhere near that. Maybe 2-3 times a day that’s all. It’s only got one outlet. To be honest I’m planning on putting a 30,000 variable on it but as I’ve blown my budget this year, and some it’ll have to wait until next year. I’m in the process of building my own shower for one of the returns. Like an idiot I didn’t put a skimmer in though which I think I’m going to regret. I’m hoping it’s just an algae bloom as you say but I hadn’t heard of it before I posted this thread. My Ammonia is 0, nitrite is less then 0.5 and Nitrate is 10 but these figures haven’t changed since the fish were put in.

  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    The strange thing is Andi, this is a brand new pond with a brand new drum.

    At this time of year in those circumstances the drum isn't going to be cleaning very often so a few times a day might be about right at the current flow rate.


    Regarding the green cloudiness, is the problem definitely fines, or is it green water, which the drum won't be able to shift?

    i.e Fines would be visible particles in the water as per the video in the link I posted. I don't see how fines could get past the drum unless something major is wrong.

  18. #12
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    Might be a bit of both to be honest as I’m seeing fines when the fish swim past and as I said there’s green cloud once the drum rinses. It’s crystal in the drum other then when it rinses though. How do I solve green water?

  19. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    when the drum cleans does the waste come out of the wast shute,is it a new drum or a second hand one,reason i ask is when i got mine they were used and on one of them the waste shute was full of crap,when it cleaned it just overflowed waste shute and back into drum,also even with a new set up it should clean more than 2-3 timas a day,i would have a look at the wash sensor and maybe raise it so it cleans more often,aim for an hour or less,the more it washes the cleaner drum screen will be and the more waste gets taken out of water,is the uv working ok,,,,andi

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  21. #14
    My pond was IMO spotless when i fitted my drum.On start up,the drum flushed every 20 mins .Point being,if the drum isnt flushing,its not catching crap..

  22. #15
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    Thing is it’s a brand new pond (about 3 weeks running now) that’s 20500 litres with just 4 fish, just the odd leaf getting in there and not much else. How much crap will there be to flush really? If it were flushing every 20/30 minutes with just 4 fish how often will it flush with say 30 in there?
    Just wondering that’s all.

  23. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    that depends on how much you feed,what food your using,how quickly they poop it out,how much airborne dirt is falling in pond,i have about 30 in mine and im feeding 6 times a day,,when feeder goes off i can guarantee my drum cleans within 5 mins as theyve stirred some muck off floor and drains have sucked it in lol,and then it will clean every 10-15 mins for about an hour lol,,,,,,andi

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  25. #17
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    Ok but with my new pond at the min there is very little muck on the bottom and because I’m building the filter up, and it’s bloody cold, I’m only feeding them 3 times a day at the most. Can’t really comment on food.

  26. #18
    Hi Wayne,in a new pond you wont have any build up of crap on the bottom or growth on the sides of your pond,so you wont flush as often as an established pond.Apologies for missing that bit

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  28. #19
    Member Rank = Nisai Waynej46's Avatar
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    It’s alright. Just trying to get to the bottom of this issue. Is it possible to get green water or new pond syndrome at this time of the year though? I thought it’d be when it’s warmer on a new pond. I can still see the fish when they’re at the bottom and it’s 5 foot deep but they’re far from clear. Also as I mentioned I can see bits floating around when they swim towards the top.

  29. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai RudeDogg1's Avatar
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    You can get new pond syndrome any time of year itís not season dependent. In fact your prob more likely to get it in winter due to the bacteria growing slower

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