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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai dshaw63's Avatar
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    Is a bakki shower the best for a koi pond

    Thinking of options for filter after drum, would i have better quality water if rip out multi bay and fit bakki shower with ceramic media. Have noticed sewage plants spraying water over stones. Have heard many people say fish seem more lively after showers fitted and feeding more. Thanks for thoughts and replies Dean ????



  2. #2
    I’ve got one and I believe I wasted my money.
    I’d go drum / moving bed if I did it again.


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  4. #3
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I think everyone's system is slightly different and therefore unique.

    All showers are not the same that's one thing for sure.
    I have a Bakki shower with BHM on my pond in addition to a combi drum with 200 litres of moving plastic media. I've not managed to find the limit of what I can feed yet.

    I guess it all depends on what your current limitations are, and what you are hoping to achieve really.

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  6. #4
    And how much you believe marketing Is a bakki shower the best for a koi pond


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  8. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai dshaw63's Avatar
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    At present running large 3 bay Manor multi bay and all filled with aerated jap mat, did try with1 chamber of boiling k1 previous with no success just blocking transfer ports. Am now thinking of trying again with transfer to next chamber at bottom so hopefully less chance of blocking port. Now that drum running with higher water level through to bays should work better. Went to Queni event sunday and noticed every pond had a shower on it, the power of marketing hey John. Plus a shower would spoil eye line down garden. With transfer at bottom should work like moving bed chamber. Thanks again John,Feline

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  10. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    I think you have said what I was about to add, and that was how it looks on your pond and in your garden. My personal opinion is that I don't think a large stainless steel box on the side of the pond does anything for the aesthetics of the garden.

    I don't think that there is any hard evidence that showers are any better than any other form of modern filtration. I have 250 litres of K1 in a large (8ft) multibay, which copes with any amount of food I throw in.

    Some users of showers say that it reduces nitrate which I think may be true, but it it may not work any better than anything else, for all, as JK above has said, it really depends on your pond system and how the filtration is set up, and I do know people that have changed from a shower to K1, or added a K1 system after first installing a shower.

    In your case, with a multibay already installed, I would concentrate on getting the K1 sorted out , ie try more air below the transfer ports to clear the K1 that is blocking the port. What I did also to reduce the blocking on the high transfer port was to double the size of the port and put very open SS mesh over it so there was much less resistance, and it worked. To make it even better, a top hat type of shape (obviously an oblong one) again made of open mesh, over the port will give even less resistance to the K1 and it will reduce blocking! These top hat mesh covers are available to buy off the shelf but usually only circular.
    Don't discount jap mat either, it is still a very good bio media, but if anything in your case, I would change one matting bay at a time with K1, as it is also less prone to holding fines, which matting can do.

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  12. #7
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Spacekoi's Avatar
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    I think bakki is one of the best ad-on-filters.
    In addition to some moving or static-bed filters, the bakki-shower can support the water quality in the last 5-10 %.

    If i had the free choice, i would recommend a combination of japan mats, static plastic stuff and by bypass, a bakki shower.
    But many ways are leading to rome.

    By the way: bakki showers are very good to exhale CO2 and to enrich O2 in the water. The are extraordinary good in the reduction of ammonia und reduce nitrite also. The only way to reduce nitrate is by regulary water change!
    Last edited by Spacekoi; 23-01-2018 at 12:57 PM.

  13. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai RJW2012's Avatar
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    Is a bakki shower the best for a koi pond

    I’d agree with the above about increasing your filtration footprint with a Bakki.

    I have an original three tier system from Absolute Koi, with 40-50KG’s of BHM, currently by-passed given the cold weather in the U.K.

    I’m debating putting this in my Filter House as others have done given the chilling effect when these are sited outside - not for the aesthetics, as I like the stainless shower trays sat on the corner of my pond (I also use the spigot tray option to try & reduce noise).

    I used to run my aerated dome pretty much all the time & when not feeding, so having the shower allows some leeway with aeration, I.e. your aerated dome doesn’t need to be on all the time which I like.

    Profidrum Combi 15 (100 litres K1) with Amalgam UV to Bakki - I rate it as a setup on a smaller pond.

    Rob.


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    Last edited by RJW2012; 24-01-2018 at 08:00 PM.

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  15. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacekoi View Post
    I think bakki is one of the best ad-on-filters.
    In addition to some moving or static-bed filters, the bakki-shower can support the water quality in the last 5-10 %.

    If i had the free choice, i would recommend a combination of japan mats, static plastic stuff and by bypass, a bakki shower.
    But many ways are leading to rome.

    By the way: bakki showers are very good to exhale CO2 and to enrich O2 in the water. The are extraordinary good in the reduction of ammonia und reduce nitrite also. The only way to reduce nitrate is by regulary water change!
    I also agree with what has been pointed out already in terms of Bakki shower being a very good bio filter - and a combination of several "right sized" bio filters with varied media improves water quality further.

    Just small addition to the comment on the only way to reduce nitrates being water changes - yes - if you do not setup any de-nitrifying bio filter you must do the regular water changes as the only measure reducing nitrates build up in your pond - but there are actually three bio filter choices how to effectively reduce nitrates in our ponds:

    1. Bakki shower with de-nitrifying media - either BHM or Ogata Crystal Bio - both having similar de-nitrifying properties - one way how to DIY is covered in one of my threads
    2. Anoxic filter - covered in detail greatly by Manky Sanke - my positive experience with it is covered in my thread on building un-planted anoxic filter
    3. De-nitrifying trickle tower - I have used Manky's design with small modification - also delivering noticeable positive results - covered in another thread I started on it.

    All the above use similar bio-conversion principle - in low oxygen environment - called anoxic conditions - not to be mistaken with anaerobic (this is bad) - good bugs called facultative anaerobic bacteria - when lacking sufficient oxygen in water passing by, "grab" nitrates from the water and use oxygen in it for their needs - end result being di-nitrogen gassed out of the water.

    Still - even if one of the above de-nitrification filters is installed, partial water exchange is a good thing for our fish and pond ecosystem - bringing fresh water into the pond helps to replenish also trace elements etc. consumed by the bio-film on the walls and in the filters.

    Just food for thought....
    Last edited by milaz; 23-01-2018 at 06:56 PM.
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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  17. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai dc197's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacekoi View Post
    I think bakki is one of the best ad-on-filters.
    In addition to some moving or static-bed filters, the bakki-shower can support the water quality in the last 5-10 %.

    If i had the free choice, i would recommend a combination of japan mats, static plastic stuff and by bypass, a bakki shower.
    But many ways are leading to rome.

    By the way: bakki showers are very good to exhale CO2 and to enrich O2 in the water. The are extraordinary good in the reduction of ammonia und reduce nitrite also. The only way to reduce nitrate is by regulary water change!
    Not sure I agree with your last statement. Bacteria can operate in modes to reduce nitrate (see Manky Sanke's website), and plants are also known to reduce nitrate.

    My tapwater is 40ppm nitrate. My pond is 5ppm, which I attribute to my shower.
    A water change would therefore increase my nitrate.

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  19. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    love my bakki and bhm its been bullet proof 7yrs now

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  21. #12
    imo a good big aerated k1 chamber, followed by a shower is a good way to go.
    Showers are great imo, but for me, it would have to be a big one for sole bio filtration.
    Personally i wouldn't / couldn't justify spending genuine bakki shower plus bhm money, much cheaper alternatives work just as well imo.

    David

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  23. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    personally the juries still out on k1 for me . only removed the multibay and jap mat due to space .when the drum was added

    the k1 took an age to mature , goes everywhere if not careful , as said 6 months on now and time will tell

    I did have 20kgs of crystal bio mixed in to the bakki but slowly replaced with bhm over time ,

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  25. #14
    Junior Member Rank = Tosai Spacekoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc197 View Post
    Not sure I agree with your last statement. Bacteria can operate in modes to reduce nitrate (see Manky Sanke's website), and plants are also known to reduce nitrate.

    My tapwater is 40ppm nitrate. My pond is 5ppm, which I attribute to my shower.
    A water change would therefore increase my nitrate.
    It´s ok.

    And its right, that plants can reduce nitrate.
    But let´s look a little further ahead.
    Big swim-ponds without filtration system are recommended 60% from it`s surface to be for plants.
    Only 30% ist for real swimming.
    And there are no fish!

    If we are looking to our koi ponds, there is alot of of nitrate of course from the nitrification.
    You will need more plants than your garden can be a home for.

    A second disadvantage is the problem with good flow through the areas with plants.
    There is a high possibility that you will get areas without oxygen and thats what we don´t want.
    Because bacteria love this places.
    I visited two ponds last year with stinky smelling plants in ther ponds and we removed them.
    Nothing to regret i think.


    Milaz talked about anoxic conditions.
    Yeah you can get that.
    But How big a filter you must build to get a sustained reduction of nitrate?

    Therefore i recommend regulary water change above everthing, when it comes to reduce nitrate.
    If your tap water is full of that.....man i have no solution for this.

  26. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacekoi View Post
    It´s ok.

    Milaz talked about anoxic conditions.
    Yeah you can get that.
    But How big a filter you must build to get a sustained reduction of nitrate?

    Therefore i recommend regulary water change above everthing, when it comes to reduce nitrate.
    If your tap water is full of that.....man i have no solution for this.
    Please check the documented results - two denitrifying trickle towers I have done using the design of Manky Sanke - each 1 m tall, 32 cm in diameter - each with 50L of Hel-X 17mm media in it - fed with approx 1.700 L/h water flow each - after mechanical pre-filter (RDF) - within less than two months brought nitrates down from 25 mg/L to 5 mg/L in my 24.000L pond - so you do not need huge setup for it - here is the picture:
    20171017_180158.jpg

    Full details can be found herewith please - if interested:
    https://www.koiforum.uk/water-treatm...wer-combo.html

    The beauty of Bakki Shower is, that it does de-nitrification really well too - in addition to all it's other benefits (stripping off CO2, reducing DOC etc.) - so who is running Bakki shower - with BHM or Ogata Crystal Bio media inside - is getting very good de-nitrification setup already.

    Still I will repeat myself - regular water change is needed - even with de-nitrifying bio-filter setup in place - to refresh the whole ecosystem in our ponds.
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

  27. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TinyTony View Post
    personally the juries still out on k1 for me . only removed the multibay and jap mat due to space .when the drum was added

    the k1 took an age to mature , goes everywhere if not careful , as said 6 months on now and time will tell

    I did have 20kgs of crystal bio mixed in to the bakki but slowly replaced with bhm over time ,
    experience taught me that k1 or in this case micro k1 , is much better than jap matting, I have a very large, 4 bay multi bay filter, i had 1 with aerated k1, 1 with aerated micro k1 and 2 with aerated jap matting, the filter was very mature.
    I swapped out the micro k1 bay for jap matting and immediately the water parameters suffered, i struggled on with it for about 6 months and never got the water quality back, i removed the jap matt again and put back normal k1, within a reasonable amount of time my water was bang on again.
    Obviously my filters bio capacity was near its limits though, so i added a large shower on the returns, and i also swapped out the other 2 jap matting bays for more aerated k1, i probably shouldn't say it, but ive never had poor water parameters since, even after chemical treatments.
    David

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  29. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    have to agree to disagree . ran a multibay with jap mat and 80kgs bhm on separate feeds so if 1 packed up I was covered with at least 1 filter ' both could handle the load on its own, been done over 8yrs I'm not sure if the k1 chamber could atm

  30. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Is a bakki shower the best for a koi pond

    I agree and disagree ha ha. Think it depends on alot of factors ie. pond volume, how many fish, how large are the fish, how much space for filtration, wanting to feed heavy and grow quick, light feeding, going for gold at the show etc...... millions of different factors really but all i can say is ive ran a bay with various medias for years and never had any issues with it. Jap mat, k1, alphagrog all still in there. Theres a drum infront of it now which helps on mechanical side no ends but on the bio it handles whatever i through at my pond. If i had a shower yeah i would probably say the same for that too. Tit for tat and all that Is a bakki shower the best for a koi pond
    I will still swear the good old big cheap multi bays if you have space for them, set them up correctly and most importantly get the mechanical sorted with a drum or seive in front are just as good as any modern filter out there. Certainly wouldnt have a nexus over mine thats one thing for sure. But each to their own ay Is a bakki shower the best for a koi pond


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    Its always a work in progress

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  32. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    I have to agree with everything lee63 has said above, a large multibay will hold far more K1 than a Nexus and perform equally as well if not better, as long as it is set up correctly, although to make it bomb proof you do need an RDF.

    I know Nexus are used by many on here and have been proved over the years, but in all honesty, a Nexus is just a container to hold K1, as is any aerated chamber, its all about how its set up, and always with a Nexus its about the mechanical filtration issues that it has.

    With the amount of K1 and jap mat, that I have I can also throw as much food into the pond with no parameter problems at all.
    But I am sure that we all sing the praises of the filters we use, especially if we have no problems...BUT the minute we have a filter problem we all go looking for something better,...or what we think is better,...then we realise after a while that it probably is no better, lol

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  34. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Bonsaijohn's Avatar
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    I,v been thinking of building a shower but we can,t get bhm in Thailand what is the next best media , most people here use bio balls but I,m not sure I like them . If I build one it would be like a big shed stacked with crates , am I wasting my time ?

 

 
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