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13-10-2021, 11:00 PM #301
Last edited by davethefish1; 13-10-2021 at 11:26 PM.
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19-10-2021, 11:27 AM #302
Ok. mental note - don't remove the mesh from the drum to clean. Big mistake.. the mesh curls so I'm going to have to spend hours disassembling the filter to extract the drum and refit it. *facepalm*
14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)
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19-10-2021, 11:52 AM #303
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19-10-2021, 03:57 PM #304
Ooooohhh no. I thought it would only take 45 minutes yesterday to remove, clean and refit.
I spent three hours removing the the drum from the filter and reinstalling the mesh before putting it back together again.
The mesh curls from the edges inwards - not around the drum.
Anyways - back together, clean and working really well.14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)
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dbs Thanked / Liked this Post
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19-10-2021, 05:44 PM #305
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NickK-UK Thanked / Liked this Post
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10-01-2022, 01:32 PM #306
Hi all,
Almost 2 years into this thread, just wondering how everyone is getting on with their drums now?
@NickK-UK How have you found reliability long term, and any further issues following the repaired/replaced PSU?
@mcwatson1974 How has your larger mesh performed over the long term, did the fines eventually clear themselves up? (I suspected they would but didn't want to give false hope)?
Did anyone who swapped to the larger mesh run gravity fed, and if so how has it performed compared to the 57 micron?
Comparing drum prices, a Solum 25 and midi bio combi seems to offer good value compared to the competition, and being British made is a plus for me. Ultimately the eventual choice of drum and bio comes down to size and what will fit, but the Draco's seem slimmer than most other drums.
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11-01-2022, 12:07 AM #307
So after the controller replacement it’s been under plastic sheeting to keep the majority of water off the unit. It’s been fine *fingers crossed*.
The drum seems fine and with the clean seems happy.
I suspect I’ll need to consider the wider aperture mesh given the new pond is larger than the originally planned size/flow rate.14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)
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RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
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11-01-2022, 08:42 AM #308
Hey @RS2000,
To answer the mesh question directly, has definitely made a difference in terms of clean times. Now we are in the middle of winter, don't really have to worry about it anyway as little sunshine, no feeding etc so little waste or algae. But in the summer and before the mesh change, I just couldn't go on with 5 min cleans. Water bill was astronomical especially being on the meter. The mesh change means cleans are now nearer 30 mins in the summer depending on time of day, 45 to 90 mins during the winter.
Regarding drums / Draco in general, this is the first drum I've had so nothing to compare against. I'm pump fed so already on the back foot but in the approaching 2 years I've had the Solum 16 and bio, I've rarely had a stable time and its either this problem or that problem. Nothing show stopping but just stability.
For example, trying to get the right flow rate is a challenge on a Solum 16. I have a vario pump running my skimmer on the lowest setting of 9k lph and a 4k lph pump on the floor of the pond. Both feed into the Solum. Having both running in the summer, its too much for the draco and it cleans far too often. So I mostly have the skimmer 9k pump running and the floor of the pond pump running on timer for a couple of hours in the morning and couple of hours in the evening.
Then I have pond losing water or gaining water and I've never determined what causes either to happen. Most of last year, pond was gaining water with the cleans and so I fitted an overflow. Most of this winter, it now loses water so I have to top up. I can only assume something isn't set up quite right and so something causes this to happen, one way or another. Gaining water isn't so bad as the overflow deals with it and its almost a trickle feed by accident. But losing water is a pain as I have to keep an eye on it and if I went away for a week, the level would reduce below the skimmer minimum height and then pumps start having trouble through lack of water.
My most recent issue is the display on my Draco controller seems to be missing certain parts of the digits so a number isn't always readable. All still working but can't always tell properly how long since the last wash. Only started in recent weeks so will try to resolve when the weather warms up a little.
So my experience of getting a drum is, yes, glad I got one but far from the miracle pond filtering solution that I thought it would be. That could be because of my set up though and that pump fed was never going to achieve miracle results.
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Stephen01 Thanked / Liked this Post
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11-01-2022, 11:53 AM #309
Interesting update, thanks for taking the time to write up.
Can't explain the water level going down - if the water is not overflowing and the drum cleans are done with freshwater, there is nowhere for the water to go other than a leak. Unless you are saying the pond water level rises before a drum clean and the excess water is going down your overflow?
I'm gravity fed using a nexus and drop-in draco 2. In summer cleans were every 6 minutes but my Drum wasn't at the optimal height so I raised pond by an inch which reduced cleaning time to every 9-12 minutes. I drain about 300 litres from the pond every week due to rising water level caused by over spray from the drum cleans.
In winter when the drum hardly cleans the pond water level stays the same.
My drum has been running 3 years now and to be fair its been 100% reliable, but there are a couple of things that are not 100% perfect:
- The round plug that plugs into the black box on the drum is easily pulled out despite having a threaded coupling, I accidentally disconnected once with just a glancing knock and it just pulled out despite the threads.
- The Solenoid that the water supply is connected to has leaked from day one, nothing serious but it is always wet with a drip hanging from it (but not actually dripping). I stripped it down and re-sealed it but it still does it. I have heard others say there's is exactly the same.
- The knob on the user control panel to adjust cleaning length from 1 to 4 just spins when I turn it. It works if you turn it and put sideways pressure against it. I assume the cam holding the knob on is worn but can't understand why since I only turn it a couple of times a year during maintenance.
Interesting point you make about the missing LCD digits. I bought a temperature controller with a digital display and kept it in the filter pit. After a week it was missing some digits so I had it replaced, same thing happened with the replacement after another week. Had it replaced again and this time, suspecting environmental factors, I left it switched on in the garage for a couple of weeks, and it was fine. Put it into the filter pit and a week later it had missing digits. I then had it replaced for a 4th one which I put (in filter pit) inside an electrical box that has a window. This one lasted about a Month and then also lost some digits.
I can only guess that humidity has to be a factor in causing this.
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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11-01-2022, 12:11 PM #310
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11-01-2022, 01:17 PM #311
Could it be the digits are missing because there was more than 99mins since the last clean.
On my Draco, if the clean time is longer than 99 mins a weird symbol shows up instead. It definitely is this because if I hit the manual clean button, wait a few minutes then hit it again, the correct number of minutes shows up.
And as you say this has only recently started happening, that would make sense now that we are in the depths of winter so minimal waste, and you have the bigger sized mesh on too.
Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TapatalkLast edited by Twhitenosugar; 11-01-2022 at 01:31 PM.
13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window
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11-01-2022, 01:31 PM #312
In terms of my thoughts on the drum, now that I swapped the mesh over to the 70 micron mesh, I'm really pleased with it. Personally I think it should come with that as standard and it might actually be able to handle the stated 16k flow.
Like others, I found it cleaned way too often with the 50 micron mesh. Swapping the mesh over was fairly straightforward by following the instructions given.
I've not had any problems with the control unit, but it's installed in a shed that has some ventilation, so not exposed to the elements or humidity.
My solenoid did leak at first, but a bit of PTFE tape and a tighten up of the nut sorted that for me.
I do operate the drum (gravity) so that the float switch is clamped lightly by the cable.
Imo the stem of the float switch is too short. Although I understand this maybe so that it can be used in a pump fed set up without it hitting the lid of the drum. But in a gravity set up, it cleaned way too often when I clamped the float switch by the stem.
But it works faultlessly with how I have it set up now, so it's not really an issue.
Overall I'm pleased with it, but with hindsight, wish I'd gone for the 25 with the larger mesh, just so I have the option of higher flow rates and to keep the washes down to a minimum.
Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TapatalkLast edited by Twhitenosugar; 11-01-2022 at 01:42 PM.
13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window
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13-01-2022, 11:11 AM #313
That is typical for drum filters in general.
The water level bounce is caused by the drum blocking then being cleaned, then blocking - the cycle causes a water level difference that causes the pond level to rise and fall.
A more detailed explanation is that the water level - let's take gravity fed system with the pump back to the pond. In this as the mesh blocks up the water level in the filter drops as the rate of water replacing the pumped water falls below the rate of the pump.
The water drained from the filters then increases the water level in the pond and on the dirty side.
The drum clean detects the need for a clean and the drum is cleaned. The water rate exceeds the pump rate as the water rushes in to balance the levels again. That inrush causes the pond to drain into the filter resulting in a dropping of the water level.
The cycle continues as the mesh blocks again.
This is why it's important to plan the water cycling and the maximum level based on behaviour of the drum.
Positioning the clean sensor for a large water level swing to increase the times between cleans causes a larger swing of water levels in the pond.
In the end the rate of cleans occurring is dependant on the amount of muck needing cleaning and the mesh size. Operating with large level differences on the sensor is more of a plaster solution to the problem, it doesn't solve the problem. I believe the solution to this with drums is to use an airlift.
The airlift doesn't have much power to overcome restrictions - a small amount but high flow rate. An air pump stalls faster than a pump will (where a pump will be happy to pump till it's dry). So the resulting maximum increase in water level is smaller, thus the sensor is set up for a smaller level swing. This relies on the drum being correct for the amount of muck at the rate of flow needed.
I'm looking forward to getting the drum running on the new pond in gravity fed mode (I have the replacement sensor) compared to the pump fed mode it is at the moment. I can then compare it's behaviour with the airlifted gravity vs the pump.
Separate point - I noted yesterday that one my wood supports under the drum has split so I need to fix that to prevent the drum casing from warping - that would cause a problem with the drum rotation.14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)
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13-01-2022, 11:16 AM #314
Although mine isn't a bounce, mine either continiously drops (so needs topping up) or continiously rises (so needs draining out). I don't have a leak as I've done the test of turning everything off for a day and the water level doesn't change.
So I'm assuming its some behaviour of the drum or that of having either one or both of my pumps running but I've not worked it out yet. It could be that the drum mesh has got to a certain stage of needing a proper clean and that causes an overflow into the chute but this isn't obvious to the eye when I'm watching it, seems to clean okay before any water overlaps the chute.
Weirdly, it was rising last summer, then had a period where it didn't do neither, now its dropping this winter.
Don't know, may just have to add it as the 8th mystery of the world.
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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13-01-2022, 11:20 AM #315
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13-01-2022, 11:33 AM #316
That could be that the overflow into the waste chute. When the water level rises as the drum blocks, it causes the chute to overflow.
Perhaps the summer caused a pipe to expand closing a leak?
In terms of flow rate - I think we're correct saying treat drum manufacturer's figures by multiplying by 0.6 (ie 60%). Seems to be accurate and in the long term operation I think that may be about right if the waste rate and the drum are cleaned properly every year.
If I take out the bio then I have lots of room for a larger drum leaving the bio for the anoxic filter chamber although I suspect I may replace the mesh depending on the flow rate and if I add more fish..14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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14-01-2022, 10:26 AM #317
I have the solum 25 and the digital timer digits go missing over 99 mins,Tony at Drac said they all do that and cant be helped so I bear with that.
My water level switch packed up and as I thought the adjustable level pipe was too short I made a new one longer with a new switch,actually I made two while I was at it so have a spare and it works a lot better as I can lower it a lot further down.
Can I ask you guys to check your drive motor,I was checking over the drum the other day and hinged the motor away from the drive cog and found play on the drive motor cog,it feels spongey but dont know if it should be like that or if its worn.
Works fine but can you guys check to see if yours are the same.
Many thanks.John
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Twhitenosugar Thanked / Liked this Post
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15-01-2022, 12:15 AM #318
Hi John,
Obviously I have a drop in which isn't quite the same drum as you but same principle.
The floating gear wheel that the motor engages with was quite lose when I first got the drum but I thought it was normal as Draco make a deal about how everything should only be hand tight.
Anyway, I noticed sometimes the motor was jumping teeth, so I nipped up the floating gear wheel and it's been perfect ever since.
As for the actual drive motor gear, that I think is reasonable tight, and as I'm stripping everything down tomorrow ahead of house move I'll have a closer look and confirm back.
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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15-01-2022, 08:17 AM #319
So you mean the shaft of the motor 'rattles' in place? Last time I'd checked it seemed solid - that's on a 16 with 2 years on the clock. Perhaps the larger drum puts additional stress on the bearing. To me the gears should remain interlocked unless the drum is stuck and at which point the floating should raise - although this is not foolproof.
The controller only goes to 99 seconds, to add another digit means a more complex controller board.
One thing the Draco is susceptible (and the bio unit) to is case warp - if the unit feet aren't on a completely level installation. However that typically is detectable by the top being difficult to fit back on to the unit. Just check that incase any warping is making the drum bind and the motor struggle.14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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15-01-2022, 05:55 PM #320
Hi John,
Checked the motor shaft and cog today, no play whatsoever.
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
The Daily pond temp thread
Pond still covered, currently 11.6C Been really mild this year as far as pond temps go. ...