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  1. #281
    An update on my 77 micron mesh.

    Now been installed for 2.5 days having installed it on Tuesday evening, now Friday morning.

    Flow rate: The pump sat on the bottom of my pond is a fixed 4000 lph so that has stayed as is. The pump running my surface skimmer is variable and I upped this to 50% and therefore 13000 lph yesterday during the day. So now running at 17000 lph, not deducting any head loss but filter system is about level and within 2 metres of the pond. Bear in mind I'm pump fed so the Solum 16 spec suggests a max of 12000lph. I reckon I could crank up the variable further and still be no less than 20 min cleans.

    Cleans: Still very good. Even with the increased flow rate, I came out this morning and time between cleans was 32 minutes. I suspect if I went back to 30% on the variable pump, the time would be around 40-50 mins first thing in the morning.

    Water Quality: If I'm truthful, it's not as good as I had hoped. However, there maybe other factors such as I treated the pond at the weekend for Blanket Weed, the flow rate has been increased and so may be stirring up some rubbish which may clear in coming days. But I have to remember I've decreased the micron of the mesh so more will get through. It's bizarre as to the naked eye, you probably couldn't see much difference in the density of the 77 to the 57 so you wonder how anything gets through either. I'm wondering whether to cheekily ask Draco if they do a 67 micron....

    My Opinion So Far: Definitely glad I have changed the mesh, it has absolutely solved the 3 or 5 minute cleans that was killing my water usage and given me control of my pumps and flow rates. If my water quality improves over coming days, it will be perfect. Don't get me wrong, water quality is decent, but it's not as it has been before. Last night, I did add the 3rd pump to a ledge just under the water surface to improve the water circulation and try to resolve any dead spots. At 10000 lph, maybe a little too aggresive but it's certainly creating some water movement. Will see how it fairs over next 48 hours,and if my fish seem to like or dislike it.

    And finally: I'm assuming my pond must have a leak. Regardless of flow rate, my pond water level drops gradually over days. It can't be filter related as that would only add to the water volume when spray from the cleaning jets falls into the main area. The only time water can be lost is when it's cleaning and going down the chute. So I must have a leak in the pond itself or the water fall trough at the rear. More things to investigate!

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  3. #282
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    An update on my 77 micron mesh.

    Now been installed for 2.5 days having installed it on Tuesday evening, now Friday morning.

    Flow rate: The pump sat on the bottom of my pond is a fixed 4000 lph so that has stayed as is. The pump running my surface skimmer is variable and I upped this to 50% and therefore 13000 lph yesterday during the day. So now running at 17000 lph, not deducting any head loss but filter system is about level and within 2 metres of the pond. Bear in mind I'm pump fed so the Solum 16 spec suggests a max of 12000lph. I reckon I could crank up the variable further and still be no less than 20 min cleans.

    Cleans: Still very good. Even with the increased flow rate, I came out this morning and time between cleans was 32 minutes. I suspect if I went back to 30% on the variable pump, the time would be around 40-50 mins first thing in the morning.

    Water Quality: If I'm truthful, it's not as good as I had hoped. However, there maybe other factors such as I treated the pond at the weekend for Blanket Weed, the flow rate has been increased and so may be stirring up some rubbish which may clear in coming days. But I have to remember I've decreased the micron of the mesh so more will get through. It's bizarre as to the naked eye, you probably couldn't see much difference in the density of the 77 to the 57 so you wonder how anything gets through either. I'm wondering whether to cheekily ask Draco if they do a 67 micron....

    My Opinion So Far: Definitely glad I have changed the mesh, it has absolutely solved the 3 or 5 minute cleans that was killing my water usage and given me control of my pumps and flow rates. If my water quality improves over coming days, it will be perfect. Don't get me wrong, water quality is decent, but it's not as it has been before. Last night, I did add the 3rd pump to a ledge just under the water surface to improve the water circulation and try to resolve any dead spots. At 10000 lph, maybe a little too aggresive but it's certainly creating some water movement. Will see how it fairs over next 48 hours,and if my fish seem to like or dislike it.

    And finally: I'm assuming my pond must have a leak. Regardless of flow rate, my pond water level drops gradually over days. It can't be filter related as that would only add to the water volume when spray from the cleaning jets falls into the main area. The only time water can be lost is when it's cleaning and going down the chute. So I must have a leak in the pond itself or the water fall trough at the rear. More things to investigate!
    Sounds like a good result to me though I can't see the fines you are experiencing

    Water loss, are you sure it is not just evaporation and loss with wind on to the water cascade, is any element porous nearby that could be soaking up water spray ??

  4. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Sounds like a good result to me though I can't see the fines you are experiencing

    Water loss, are you sure it is not just evaporation and loss with wind on to the water cascade, is any element porous nearby that could be soaking up water spray ??
    I do have an element of plants in my pond and my wife keeps telling me they could be absorbing some of the water but I refuse to believe it can be the amount that is going. My pond surface is around 3 metres long by about 1.5 metres wide and it drops around 1cm or 2cm a day.

    Below is a picture of my pond. I have my filter and bio returning to the 'trough' at the back which has plants in at both ends (can only see one end in the pic), then water drops into the main pond. So the plants could be drinking it, or could be losing from wind across the water spout, or just evaporation. I'm just surprised that it would gobble that much up. It's not a scary drop per day, but is a drop.

    20210417_165346.jpg

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  6. #284
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Are you 100% sure it's not overflowing down the waste chute of the drum in the minutes before the drum starts to clean?

    I know you have your float switch high up. So just wondering if water trickles down the waste chute as the water level in the dirty side of the drum creeps up?

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    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

  7. #285
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Nice looking pond and garden by the way.

    Looks like a nice place to chill out.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  9. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Are you 100% sure it's not overflowing down the waste chute of the drum in the minutes before the drum starts to clean?

    I know you have your float switch high up. So just wondering if water trickles down the waste chute as the water level in the dirty side of the drum creeps up?

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    Having raised my float switch to the highest point possible (took your advice), I have made a point of staring at the waste chute in the lead up to a clean, done this each day over past 3 days. Whilst the water does get right to the edge, nothing spills over before the clean commences so I don't think that is it.

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  11. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Nice looking pond and garden by the way.

    Looks like a nice place to chill out.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the nice comment. We built the house 4 years ago and I soooo regret not doing the pond properly with a bottom drain but I had only just convinced my soon to be wife at that point that we need a water feature out the back of the bi folds. She agreed but didn't want me to get carried away. I had a digger whilst she was out so kept digging so got one that is 5ft deep. But didn't have the time or chance to do a proper bottom drain and gutted. Patio 2 years ago and then garden furniture about a month ago, finally come together!!

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  13. #288
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Lol. Had a digger whilst she was out. Brilliant.

    It's that old saying. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission right? Draco Drum Solum 16 + Standard Bio review

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  15. #289
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    That looks very nice indeed, hmmmm 1cm is a good drop, too much ror a low waterfall but evaporation could be a bit if in a windy location , as suggested by other drum wast Shute could be a prime contender

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  16. #290
    Regarding pond levels and losing water, I too was convinced I had a leak however, this is what happens to mine.
    Overflow is in skimmer, set a knapsack cock below top of drum waste chute.
    When screen is clean everything is level. As screen gets dirty, the water level in the drum dirty side drops which means you effectively have only around have the surface area of screen available you had at “clean”.
    Pumps are therefore sending more water back to the pond than is flowing through the drum, pond rises, overflows.
    Drum cleans, everything settled back down again but your water level has dropped in the pond.
    Pain in the backside and also why quotes drum flow rates are a complete fabrication. Mine may be a “35” but it’ll only do that when the screen is perfectly clean. Which let’s face it, that’s only gonna happen straight after a cleaning cycle.
    Might that be happening to yours?


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  18. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Regarding pond levels and losing water, I too was convinced I had a leak however, this is what happens to mine.
    Overflow is in skimmer, set a knapsack cock below top of drum waste chute.
    When screen is clean everything is level. As screen gets dirty, the water level in the drum dirty side drops which means you effectively have only around have the surface area of screen available you had at “clean”.
    Pumps are therefore sending more water back to the pond than is flowing through the drum, pond rises, overflows.
    Drum cleans, everything settled back down again but your water level has dropped in the pond.
    Pain in the backside and also why quotes drum flow rates are a complete fabrication. Mine may be a “35” but it’ll only do that when the screen is perfectly clean. Which let’s face it, that’s only gonna happen straight after a cleaning cycle.
    Might that be happening to yours?


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    Possibly although if I've read and understood your situation correctly, I'm guessing you are gravity which means the pump is pulling the water out of your filter whereas I'm pump fed and therefore pushing water to the filter.

    But I do think it's something to do with the filter system. For two reasons.

    When my filter was cleaning every few minutes, my pond level went up and I'd have to drain out every few days.

    When my filter is cleaning a lot less often, my pond level goes down and I have to top up every few days.

    Also, earlier this year and with a similar issue happening, I turned off all the filter system for 48 hours just to see what the pond water level did. It didn't change at all suggesting the main pond itself isn't leaking. So it's either the water trough at the back, or the filter system.

    I'm fairly sure its the filter system, but for the life of me, I cannot see what is causing it. Water isn't going down the chute as far as I can see (unless cleaning) so the water must be going somewhere!! And with cleaning now only every 35/40 minutes, it's not cleaning enough to lose that amount of water per day.

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  20. #292
    I’m am gravity fed yes however the rise and fall of the pond due to the flow through the drum screen still stands I think.
    Do you have an overflow?
    Might be worth watching it for a while just in case if you do. at least you can rule that out then.


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  21. #293
    Hey @RAPLEYR, how is your water quality now you have been running on the 77 micron mesh for a while?

    My cleaning frequency and flow rates are so much better since I installed the 77 but I just can't get my water clarity anywhere near as good as when it was on the 57 micron. Yes, don't expect it to be like for like as the lesser micron mesh isn't going to stop as much but I've definitely got a brown murky aspect to my water now whereas before, I could clearly to the bottom which is 5.5ft. I'm almost tempted to put the 57 back on but I don't want 5 or 6 minute cleans again.

    I did ask Tony @ Draco if he did a 67 mesh (half way house) but the answer was no.

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  23. #294
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Rapleyr's Avatar
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    I haven’t noticed a massive difference but I didn’t swop my shower over for an new one double the size and an extra 50kg of BHM at the same time so may be helping currently.

    Even with less clarity I wouldn’t stop back and prefer the much higher turnover rate and lower clean cycles. If I am really bothered I will add another form of filter action like a tempest but I can’t see me needing to


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  25. #295
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    Not sure why I've missed the last two pages of posts since I sounded my frustrations on my Draco (no notifications of new posts till this morning) but been great reading that @RAPLEYR has replaced the mesh, and seen better results. It's convinced me to get in contact with my supplier tomorrow morning and get one ordered.

    Since I not only downgraded one of my pumps (to reduce flow rate) but also swapped them around around a week or two ago, I've seen an improvement but not a solution.

    I now have a 22k lph pump running my surface skimmer at 30% (apparently 9.5k lph, not that that is 30% of 22k but spec says lowest setting is 9.5k lph) and a 4k lph pump sat on the bottom of the pond running at 100% (not variable), both pumps going into the Draco 16 albeit the skimmer pump is going via a EA UV.

    With both pumps on, my Draco 16 is cleaning under every 10 mins, and my pond water level goes up gradually so I have to empty some every few days, water is decent quality though but still a lot of fines.

    With my 'bottom of pond' pump switched off (the 4k lph one), cleaning goes up to 30-60 mins depending on time of day but water clarity isn't as good and still fines. Also pond water level gradually goes down!

    Still can't fathom why the pond water level goes up or goes down, doesn't yo yo but just either continually goes up if flow rate is too much or continually goes down if flow rate is too low.

    VERY frustrating!!

    But I'm going to get a 77 micron mesh ordered tomorrow and see if that does the trick. I'm very rubbish at DIY so hopefully its as easy to fit as @RAPLEYR says it is.

    Have you tried the pump up/down experiment with the drum pass throughs open? If they're open and it still occurs then it's not likely to be the mesh that the issue, which points to something else in the circuit.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

  26. #296
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    An update on my 77 micron mesh.

    Now been installed for 2.5 days having installed it on Tuesday evening, now Friday morning.

    Flow rate: The pump sat on the bottom of my pond is a fixed 4000 lph so that has stayed as is. The pump running my surface skimmer is variable and I upped this to 50% and therefore 13000 lph yesterday during the day. So now running at 17000 lph, not deducting any head loss but filter system is about level and within 2 metres of the pond. Bear in mind I'm pump fed so the Solum 16 spec suggests a max of 12000lph. I reckon I could crank up the variable further and still be no less than 20 min cleans.

    Cleans: Still very good. Even with the increased flow rate, I came out this morning and time between cleans was 32 minutes. I suspect if I went back to 30% on the variable pump, the time would be around 40-50 mins first thing in the morning.

    Water Quality: If I'm truthful, it's not as good as I had hoped. However, there maybe other factors such as I treated the pond at the weekend for Blanket Weed, the flow rate has been increased and so may be stirring up some rubbish which may clear in coming days. But I have to remember I've decreased the micron of the mesh so more will get through. It's bizarre as to the naked eye, you probably couldn't see much difference in the density of the 77 to the 57 so you wonder how anything gets through either. I'm wondering whether to cheekily ask Draco if they do a 67 micron....

    My Opinion So Far: Definitely glad I have changed the mesh, it has absolutely solved the 3 or 5 minute cleans that was killing my water usage and given me control of my pumps and flow rates. If my water quality improves over coming days, it will be perfect. Don't get me wrong, water quality is decent, but it's not as it has been before. Last night, I did add the 3rd pump to a ledge just under the water surface to improve the water circulation and try to resolve any dead spots. At 10000 lph, maybe a little too aggresive but it's certainly creating some water movement. Will see how it fairs over next 48 hours,and if my fish seem to like or dislike it.

    And finally: I'm assuming my pond must have a leak. Regardless of flow rate, my pond water level drops gradually over days. It can't be filter related as that would only add to the water volume when spray from the cleaning jets falls into the main area. The only time water can be lost is when it's cleaning and going down the chute. So I must have a leak in the pond itself or the water fall trough at the rear. More things to investigate!
    I find (and probably much to the annoyance of the fish) that a good pond stir up and high flow rate for an hour or two works wonders. The drum goes nuts but then settles down. My pond isn't the best shape and with plants it can trap some dirt. Although with the drum the pond is pretty spotless compared to previous years. Since having the drum, there's not much that gets stirred up.

    I need to get the jetwash on the drum for the spring clean after the winter months (also it had stood idle with the controller issues for a while). I normally give it a spray twice a year.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  28. #297
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    From Wikipedia:

    Acids

    Stainless steel is generally highly resistant to attack from acids, but this quality depends on the kind and concentration of the acid, the surrounding temperature, and the type of steel. Type 904 is resistant to sulfuric acid at room temperature, even in high concentrations; type 316 and 317 are resistant below 10%, and 304 should not be used in the presence of sulfuric acid at any concentration. All types of stainless steel resist attack from phosphoric acid, 316 and 317 more so than 304; Types 304L and 430 have been successfully used with nitric acid. Hydrochloric acid will damage any kind of stainless steel, and should be avoided.

    Organics

    Types 316 and 317 are both useful for storing and handling acetic acid ( Vinegar ) , especially in solutions where it is combined with formic acid and when aeration is not present (oxygen helps protect stainless steel under such conditions), though 317 provides the greatest level of resistance to corrosion. Type 304 is also commonly used with formic acid though it will tend to discolor the solution. All grades resist damage from aldehydes and amines, though in the latter case grade 316 is preferable to 304; cellulose acetate will damage 304 unless the temperature is kept low. Fats and fatty acids only affect grade 304 at temperatures above 150 °C (302 °F), and grade 316 above 260 °C (500 °F), while 317 is unaffected at all temperatures. Type 316L is required for processing of urea.

    The following is a list of common conditions that cause corrosion or discoloration of stainless steel and should be avoided:
    • Chloride containing cleansers – this includes bleach and any bleach containing cleaners • Muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid) – commonly used to clean up after tile/concrete installation

    Do not use cleaners containing Muriatic or Hydrochloric acid. Such cleaners will cause discoloration and corrosion to all metals.


    Just looking at giving my mesh a good clean by removing the mesh an decalcifying it. I have a couple of options - white vinegar for example. Originally I was looking at Brick Acid (HCl, hydrogen chloride) that Draco has indicated previously however it looks like it possibly the worst option. So I think I will try bath of white vinegar.

    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

  29. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post

    Just looking at giving my mesh a good clean by removing the mesh an decalcifying it. I have a couple of options - white vinegar for example. Originally I was looking at Brick Acid (HCl, hydrogen chloride) that Draco has indicated previously however it looks like it possibly the worst option. So I think I will try bath of white vinegar.

    I know lime juice has been used in the past to clean sieve filters from microorganisms/detritus- could also be worth a go!

  30. #299
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i have seen a 'drum cleaner' in a spray bottle somewhere...?
    for a reletively 'safe' acid i would probably use a strong solution of food grade citric acid.
    but would have thought bio film would be more of a problem than limescale?

    Craig using brick acid...

    Last edited by davethefish1; 13-10-2021 at 10:57 PM.

  31. #300
    Aquasource make drum screen cleaner.
    Seems to do the job on mine and is fish safe


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