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  1. #41
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    Hi, I've just installed a Solum 16 and Bio Chamber but I'll do a post on it in the coming days. In the meantime, I note you've ordered a cut off if the water level drops and I'm trying to find one as I'm pump fed and need to ensure I don't drain the pond if something goes wrong. Is it possible to put a link up of what you've gone for as I've done a search but can't find anything that is plug and play rather than switches that you then need to be all electrical with. Thanks

    I've ordered one of these: Clarke 7950826 Universal Float 7950826. The same design is available from most places: https://www.clarketooling.co.uk/prod...230v-2m-cable/ just check the power cable length meets your requirements. There are more expensive options but for now I just went with the simplest. It requires wiring in. Just waiting on delivery but one option for me is to see if I can retrofit this into the switch box I have temporarily (it simply uses the physical cable slot but doesn't use the electrics. I'll then use two cable holders to secure it to the pond side.

    I can see one minor issue - that the system will refill from the draining bio, causing the pump to be powered again and then tripping as the pump fills the bio again. I need to check the power on condition of the EA varipump controller (it may turn on without running the pump). However this is in an emergency and the water level comes first over a pump (I have a second older pump).

    I'll put details up on this as I do it.

    The new pond will be gravity fed so if the water level falls then something is wrong. I may put this in the Anoxic filter as it will be the area that the water is pumped out of and in theory it should be on the same level as the pond etc. The pump will be positioned between the anoxic and the pond.

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    I've ordered one of these: Clarke 7950826 Universal Float 7950826. The same design is available from most places: https://www.clarketooling.co.uk/prod...230v-2m-cable/ just check the power cable length meets your requirements. There are more expensive options but for now I just went with the simplest. It requires wiring in. Just waiting on delivery but one option for me is to see if I can retrofit this into the switch box I have temporarily (it simply uses the physical cable slot but doesn't use the electrics. I'll then use two cable holders to secure it to the pond side.
    Thanks for the details. I saw one of these when I was searching but being very limited on DIY knowledge and ability, I couldnt work out where it wired into - (I have to look at a diagram to wire a plug)!

    I have the Aqua Forte Variable pump which I wouldn't want to break into the cable between the controller and pump so would hope it would be at the plug end.

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  5. #43
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    Thanks for the details. I saw one of these when I was searching but being very limited on DIY knowledge and ability, I couldnt work out where it wired into - (I have to look at a diagram to wire a plug)!

    I have the Aqua Forte Variable pump which I wouldn't want to break into the cable between the controller and pump so would hope it would be at the plug end.
    They are rated to 240V for sump-pumps so these would work on the mains plug end - acting like a switch. It looks like a three wire system - probably one live input, then you take one of the two outputs depending if you want that output live if the pond is above the level to switch off or below. I looked at non-mercury based switches but they're £40-70 on top.

    The controller to pump sounds like it's 3 phase (I've seen 24V 3phase pond pumps so I assume the same is true for EA and AF) so you don't want to break this line. There is a way of doing it but it's complex and would require additional electronics circuitry.

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  7. #44
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    So more waste bucket analysis..


    IMG_7787.jpg IMG_7789.jpg

    So in the summer I've noted that the drum is extracting more algae than mess from my koi. Left is yesterday single wash and right is this morning ~7:30 from the overnight bucket - the drum went off by itself whilst feeding the fish just before I get to the bucket. Time from last wash 96minutes.

    The pond has some algae but the fish are snacking on that and keeping it clear (the chargoi simply loves his greens).

    This got me thinking a little about drum sizing for your ponds - it's not only the koi sticking and water volume but also the amount of algae being extracted. Regardless of the UVC, the drum will (most likely) be extracting it so you need to take into account a derating for the amount of algae based on sun exposure.

    Note my pond doesn't have a UVC at the moment and it's still clear as a bell. The lilies are pulling the NO3 out of the pond water.

    Pond stats yesterday mid day using new NT labs test kit:
    NH3 < 0.2
    NO2 <0.25 (0.1 I’d guess)
    NO3 <2.5
    pH 8
    KH over 9 drips > 160ppm
    GH over ~12 drips (we have very hard water)

    @mcwatson1974 - I've received the level switch yesterday - one the shower DIY is done today I'll look at fitting that.

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  9. #45
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    Thanks for the details. I saw one of these when I was searching but being very limited on DIY knowledge and ability, I couldnt work out where it wired into - (I have to look at a diagram to wire a plug)!

    I have the Aqua Forte Variable pump which I wouldn't want to break into the cable between the controller and pump so would hope it would be at the plug end.

    WARNING - if in doubt seek an electrician. These voltages and current will kill you, your fish and if someone comes to your aid without isolating you.. possibly them to. Oh and it could cause a fire and damage property - so you're up to your own and by using this information you take full knowledge and responsibility for your actions, the results and damage that may result.


    Ok, I had a look at this although I don't have time before the sun disappears to dissemble the switch box and get the thing installed.

    Mine is a Clarke and has three colours to the cable - Black, Blue and Brown. They look like a mains plug colouring - this is NOT for connecting directly to the mains in a plug using that colouring code.

    Basically the device (if used to switch the 240V) is used directly in the "live" power line. Note with AC 240V both "Neutral and "Live" are live and carry 240V that will easily kill you and your fish.

    Next up is you should treat all THREE switch cables as 240V AC live. When the switch is floating the brown and black are connected, the blue is disconnected. However when the switch falls as the water level falls the brown and blue are connected, the black is disconnected.

    As you're interested in only allowing the pump when the water level is high and the switch is floating.. then you should only connect the brown and black BUT isolate the blue as it will be 240V when the water drops. In a more advance system that 240V could power an alarm for example off the blue connection.

    IMG_7798.jpg


    An alternative to this is to use the same setup to power a relay. Then use 12V or 24V through the floating switch and only have the 240V connected to the relay on land. This means if the cable or the float leak any water will only conduct 24V and not 240V.

  10. #46
    Morning, being a complete plum with these things - and before I saw your detail of the writing, I searched for a video on how best to wire these things in. Massive load of videos that only complicated and confused me further but then found this one that spelt it out:-

    https://youtu.be/nl6olB0ib3s

    So I've now had delivered a float switch and a junction box and will fit this over the next few days and all but the float will be in the filter house so chances of electrocution should be close to zero - he says!

    On a different topic, 96 minutes since the last wash. Blimey - mine is still washing every 6 or 7 minutes and I've still got fones in my pond albeit I did have a severe blanket weed problem in my pond which has been treated so think this is breaking down. My Solum 16 and Bio Chamber has been running for about 2 weeks now. Would like the washing to become less frequent as not only is it using a shed load of water, the over spray also keeps filling my pond up which I have to keep emptying some so another job this week is devise an overflow for a pond that is mostly below ground level.

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  12. #47
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    Morning, being a complete plum with these things - and before I saw your detail of the writing, I searched for a video on how best to wire these things in. Massive load of videos that only complicated and confused me further but then found this one that spelt it out:-

    https://youtu.be/nl6olB0ib3s

    So I've now had delivered a float switch and a junction box and will fit this over the next few days and all but the float will be in the filter house so chances of electrocution should be close to zero - he says!

    On a different topic, 96 minutes since the last wash. Blimey - mine is still washing every 6 or 7 minutes and I've still got fones in my pond albeit I did have a severe blanket weed problem in my pond which has been treated so think this is breaking down. My Solum 16 and Bio Chamber has been running for about 2 weeks now. Would like the washing to become less frequent as not only is it using a shed load of water, the over spray also keeps filling my pond up which I have to keep emptying some so another job this week is devise an overflow for a pond that is mostly below ground level.

    When the drum was first installed it was firing off every minute with 4000lph. However I'd really made a mess in the pond! As the pond cleans up due to the mess being extracted (like you I'd blanket answered shortly before installing), the fish stirring things up (I have tench too as well as the koi), the time between washes increases. Then it appears that the summer sun (plus the fish eating the algae and dislodging it) results in additional load again. Over time the pond gets clearer - if you have really small fines then try Blagdon Pond Clear. It's not a algaecide but a flocculant so any small particles messing up the pond will clump together. I used the dregs of a bottle once and after that - it's kept clear.

    With the plants in the pond, and it being in full sun from 9am till sundown, I get a slow evaporation. Although I think I also have a very very small leak but one that can go weeks without needing attention currently. Every so often it gets a top up.

    Just curious - how much pressure is getting to the nozzles? If it's not got enough pressure then mess is left on the screen and you'll get additional washes.

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  14. #48
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    Morning, being a complete plum with these things - and before I saw your detail of the writing, I searched for a video on how best to wire these things in. Massive load of videos that only complicated and confused me further but then found this one that spelt it out:-

    https://youtu.be/nl6olB0ib3s

    So I've now had delivered a float switch and a junction box and will fit this over the next few days and all but the float will be in the filter house so chances of electrocution should be close to zero - he says!

    On a different topic, 96 minutes since the last wash. Blimey - mine is still washing every 6 or 7 minutes and I've still got fones in my pond albeit I did have a severe blanket weed problem in my pond which has been treated so think this is breaking down. My Solum 16 and Bio Chamber has been running for about 2 weeks now. Would like the washing to become less frequent as not only is it using a shed load of water, the over spray also keeps filling my pond up which I have to keep emptying some so another job this week is devise an overflow for a pond that is mostly below ground level.

    Interestingly enough there's a large number of people that have had 240V AC to pond with cords burning out and melting through. I noted that the copper itself in the cable can twist in it's insulation which means the copper doesn't support the cable and over time it will slow break the cable due to fatigue. Once the copper is down to it's last strand or two it can heat up through resistance before breaking, once broken the arcing will cause heat. The heat melts through the wire. Seems like cheap wiring to me.

    I would recommend switching to a 12V through the switch and then use a relay to switch the 240V AC.

    I will have to have a think - a relay is only £6 but I don't want the relay coil continuously powered wasting energy. The EA Varipump starts off from it's last setting in event of a power outage which is nice because it means that water level shutdown restarts at the same pump speed.

    Will have to have a think.

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  16. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    Interestingly enough there's a large number of people that have had 240V AC to pond with cords burning out and melting through. I noted that the copper itself in the cable can twist in it's insulation which means the copper doesn't support the cable and over time it will slow break the cable due to fatigue. Once the copper is down to it's last strand or two it can heat up through resistance before breaking, once broken the arcing will cause heat. The heat melts through the wire. Seems like cheap wiring to me.

    I would recommend switching to a 12V through the switch and then use a relay to switch the 240V AC.

    I will have to have a think - a relay is only £6 but I don't want the relay coil continuously powered wasting energy. The EA Varipump starts off from it's last setting in event of a power outage which is nice because it means that water level shutdown restarts at the same pump speed.

    Will have to have a think.
    Hmmmm, that's made me hold back a little from installing the float switch! Neither do I wish to electrocute the fish or myself but I only just got on top of how to wire it all before, now with all the relay talk, it would probably put me off. I do have a sensitive fuse board running the electrics to the pond so I'd hope if anything was shorting out, the RCD would cut out almost immediately.

    As for the fines side of things, I think my problem is for various reasons. Firstly, my pond is in almost full sunlight all day, or at least after 10am for the remainder. I'm also breaking down blanket weed at the moment. And finally, I'm still tinkering with the set up of my pumps and pipe work. I have an Oase surface skimmer which I've got my pump connected too but when I do, I don't have good water clarity. Then when I disconnect the skimmer, I have better water clarity and rubbish surface water quality. So I've got some pipework coming to enable a second pump to be running the skimmer whilst the vario pump sits on the bottom and does the main removal. This means I'll also make use of both inlets of the Draco. Should know by the end of the week if it's all as I want it. I'd prefer to not have two pumps and associated pipework in the pond but it is what it is.

    On the question of pressure to the cleaning bars, that is more than enough as it cleans it well and so much so that overspray is causing to bounce off the drum screen and causing my pond water level to increase, hence the need to fit an overflow and then I have an automatic trickle in and trickle out in a roundabout way.

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  18. #50
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    With the hot weather I have disconnected the bio and use it at a static bed at the moment - no change in water stats but giving it a manual mix I noted that fines were apparent (bio film I suspect).

    I switched the pump to 10,000lph and gave the media a good working over - the pond did look stuffed with fines... however the turnover rate quickly passed the fines into the drum that filtered them out. The drum was firing often and the waste bucket full of it. The media is good - still has biofilm.

    I'm going to start ordering the bits for the new pond.. including the BD, skimmer, tubing and air pump as I have a good idea what I need. I'll order a pressure gauge for the air pump and an air bleed.

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  20. #51
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Stephen01's Avatar
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    Superb review, I have a Draco drop in and sort from a few teething problems a leek after the Solenoid now fixed and the drum is a tad tight when washing its amazing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  22. #52
    Question if I may...... I recently installed a pump fed Draco 16 and Standard Bio Chamber and in doing so, had to make quite a few changes to the filter house and outlets/inlets to the pond. In principle, the drum has been working fine but I'm struggling with maintaining water levels and because a fair bit has changed, I'm unsure whether I have a problem, or it's as per design.

    When I first installed the drum, I weirdly found my pond water level to be increasing whereas I expected it to drop because the drum fires so much down the waste when cleaning. I never understood how it could increase and asked Draco who suggested it could be over spray. It was requiring me to take 5 or 6 buckets of water out a day to stop overflowing.

    Anyway, more recently, my pond levels are now going down and probably by about 10 buckets a day and I'm trying to work out if a) is this because the Draco is cleaning and sending so much water down the drain or B) have I got a leak somewhere.

    Any ideas how many litres the Draco uses per clean? I'll then establish how many times its cleaning and what quantity in a day that could be. Doesn't explain though why once it was adding water and now, it's removing water.

  23. #53
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Scamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    Question if I may...... I recently installed a pump fed Draco 16 and Standard Bio Chamber and in doing so, had to make quite a few changes to the filter house and outlets/inlets to the pond. In principle, the drum has been working fine but I'm struggling with maintaining water levels and because a fair bit has changed, I'm unsure whether I have a problem, or it's as per design.

    When I first installed the drum, I weirdly found my pond water level to be increasing whereas I expected it to drop because the drum fires so much down the waste when cleaning. I never understood how it could increase and asked Draco who suggested it could be over spray. It was requiring me to take 5 or 6 buckets of water out a day to stop overflowing.

    Anyway, more recently, my pond levels are now going down and probably by about 10 buckets a day and I'm trying to work out if a) is this because the Draco is cleaning and sending so much water down the drain or B) have I got a leak somewhere.

    Any ideas how many litres the Draco uses per clean? I'll then establish how many times its cleaning and what quantity in a day that could be. Doesn't explain though why once it was adding water and now, it's removing water.
    Hi
    are you using mains to clean, or pond water? If mains then overspray could increase level in pond, dependant on how many cleans. I take it you have no overflow fitted to cope with that.
    Conversely if now your levels are dropping, that could be associated with cleaning using the pond water, and if often could lower your level in the pond?! If mains cleaning, and you are losing water could be a leak somewhere now? Cheers

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  25. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
    Hi
    are you using mains to clean, or pond water? If mains then overspray could increase level in pond, dependant on how many cleans. I take it you have no overflow fitted to cope with that.
    Conversely if now your levels are dropping, that could be associated with cleaning using the pond water, and if often could lower your level in the pond?! If mains cleaning, and you are losing water could be a leak somewhere now? Cheers
    Thanks for the clarification. I am on mains water cleaning and so it suggests I've got a leak which is a bummer. Now to find where it is - just hope its not in the pond itself!

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  27. #55
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
    Hi
    are you using mains to clean, or pond water? If mains then overspray could increase level in pond, dependant on how many cleans. I take it you have no overflow fitted to cope with that.
    Conversely if now your levels are dropping, that could be associated with cleaning using the pond water, and if often could lower your level in the pond?! If mains cleaning, and you are losing water could be a leak somewhere now? Cheers
    Goid answer scamp. Well explained lol

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  29. #56
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    If gravity fed you should be able to use the waste chute as a water level overflow. Just make the desired water level just under the drum waste chute.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  31. #57
    So I think I've found the problem for the water loss, but not before spending the whole day relining my water trough at the back of my pond that feeds my main pond via a water spout!

    I'm pump fed and I had a pump in the bottom of the pond going to one of my inlets on my Draco 16. But I also wanted a surface skimmer to be running too so I put in a 2nd pump that was connected to the skimmer and ran that to the 2nd inlet on the drum. I estimated that total flow rate shouldn't exceed the 12000 lph that the Draco 16 is rated for in pump fed set ups.

    I ran both pumps and the water levels seems to sit nicely in both the drum and the bio chamber but when running both pumps, I get severe water loss, and I mean pond of 3m x 1.8m surface area dropping a cm every 30 - 45 mins or so.

    I can't find the water leaking anywhere so I can only assume it must be going down the waste chute and therefore I can only assume the water level in the drum is too high.

    I realised all this as I was finishing the day yesterday so I turned the skimmer off and left it. Today, I'm going to disconnect the waste pipe and direct to a bucket, run both pumps and see if the water is heading to the waste. If so, I've got a decision to make of whether to drain the drum and bio and chuck a slab underneath to raise the height.

    I'd like to get both pumps working as so far, my Draco hasn't delivered the hype that they make my water gin clear but think that's because I've been tinkering ever since I installed it 4 weeks ago.

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  33. #58
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    I'd like to get both pumps working as so far, my Draco hasn't delivered the hype that they make my water gin clear but think that's because I've been tinkering ever since I installed it 4 weeks ago.
    Seems that getting the sweet spot of low wash/low water use vs drum size/high flow rate is difficult.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  35. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    Seems that getting the sweet spot of low wash/low water use vs drum size/high flow rate is difficult.
    I think I've got it sorted. I think I had the float switch in the drum set incorrectly and there is a possibility that the increased flow rate was causing it to catch on the waste chute and therefore not trigger a clean, and in doing so, the water just overflowed into the waste chute. I can't be sure of this as I tinkered with various bits yesterday to resolve but after doing so, my pond level stayed the same the whole day. In theory, I suppose it should be going up slightly if all is working properly but for the moment, it's not going down so I'll take that for a few days to settle things.

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  37. #60
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcwatson1974 View Post
    I think I've got it sorted. I think I had the float switch in the drum set incorrectly and there is a possibility that the increased flow rate was causing it to catch on the waste chute and therefore not trigger a clean, and in doing so, the water just overflowed into the waste chute. I can't be sure of this as I tinkered with various bits yesterday to resolve but after doing so, my pond level stayed the same the whole day. In theory, I suppose it should be going up slightly if all is working properly but for the moment, it's not going down so I'll take that for a few days to settle things.
    I have twice had my nexus start emptying.
    My old drum used to be all manual. Now this new drum is all digital.
    What I found is if i emergency stop it.
    I have to reset the drum washes by activating the senser. In other words if it needs a wash or not. Activate the senser lever in the water. And it does not do it anymore. Even if I did manual wash. It did nt set it. Senser trigger did. So next time I emergency stop I will have to remember this.
    I prefer the old manual way. You could set the senser anywhere and emergency stop or manual wash. At any time.and for how long. No digital figure and all that crap.
    More things to go wrong now.
    For the gadget people looking at times and numbers probably great.
    Me I like things simple.
    Fred


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