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  1. #201
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Spot the problem:

    IMG_8252.jpg


    So it appears the seal in the controller box has failed and caused water ingress and a short circuit. The float switch caught the pump before it emptied the pond - which is what I saw from the conservatory..

    So it looks like I will need to dry out the box and see what has died. One assumes the PSU (£27).. but it may be something simpler like a PSU fuse or the fuse in the switch box.


    Either way - it looks like the controller box isn't safe for mounting outdoors. Especially with the complete down pour over the weekend.

    Once on the new pond the controller box will be inside, along with everything else.


    Quick update - the controller box and everything is IP65 rated so rain shouldn't be a problem. The switch box has a blown fuse for that channel. So if the short was on the terminals at the base, it may be just a dry it out and replace the fuse in the switch box.. let's see.
    So today I have learnt
    1. 240V + water is not good
    2. Float switches are really really important on a pump fed setup.
    3. fuses in the switch box are awesome too..

    The switch box is still operational - supplying power to the air pump and the water pump. So in short (excuse the pun) that was a good buy!

    I would make a point that water could have ingressed through the main seal, or the switches on the front - they don't seem to look like waterproof switch components. Also no earthing from the front switchgear to earth on the supply...
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  2. #202
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Update.

    I just so happened to have a supply of glass tube 250V 4A and 5A 5x20 fuses. I've dried out the controller box and then replaced the fuse. I also have a multi-meter capable of 1000V AC and plugged in.

    Nothing went bang but although the meter shows 230V is present at the main rails on the switched-mode power supply (the silver box in the picture), there is no output of 12V DC. So it looks like something in the PSU has gone poof. PSU is available from RS for £27 and they have 134 in stock.. but I will contact Draco as the controller box is IP65 and should be waterproof for outside conditions.

    I still don't know if the controller board itself has gone poof but I could test that - I have a PSU that is capable of 12V at 5A.

    I think what has happened is that the switch gear on the front has weeped moisture in over time. I'll also point out that their live AC voltage goes to the emergency isolation switch then to the PSU.. but it doesn't have any earth.

    Looking at the matsuko box fuse it did a stirling job - with no burning or discolouration. The fuse glass has cracked

    Will keep you updated.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

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  4. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    Update.

    I just so happened to have a supply of glass tube 250V 4A and 5A 5x20 fuses. I've dried out the controller box and then replaced the fuse. I also have a multi-meter capable of 1000V AC and plugged in.

    Nothing went bang but although the meter shows 230V is present at the main rails on the switched-mode power supply (the silver box in the picture), there is no output of 12V DC. So it looks like something in the PSU has gone poof. PSU is available from RS for £27 and they have 134 in stock.. but I will contact Draco as the controller box is IP65 and should be waterproof for outside conditions.

    I still don't know if the controller board itself has gone poof but I could test that - I have a PSU that is capable of 12V at 5A.

    I think what has happened is that the switch gear on the front has weeped moisture in over time. I'll also point out that their live AC voltage goes to the emergency isolation switch then to the PSU.. but it doesn't have any earth.

    Looking at the matsuko box fuse it did a stirling job - with no burning or discolouration. The fuse glass has cracked

    Will keep you updated.
    EBAY is far cheaper for a psu , RS is the most expensive place

    my PSU still worked once dried nothing blown just tripped electrics after cleaning pump turned on and the hose blew off causing the psu to get drenched wasnt in a box at that time
    my fault for forgetting to tighten jubilee clip

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  6. #204
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markini5 View Post
    EBAY is far cheaper for a psu , RS is the most expensive place

    my PSU still worked once dried nothing blown just tripped electrics after cleaning pump turned on and the hose blew off causing the psu to get drenched wasnt in a box at that time
    my fault for forgetting to tighten jubilee clip
    Iíll see however first I just want to see if the main controller board is toast. I see the PSU is £16 elsewhere. However it should not leak so thatís not what I should be paying for...
    Iíve pinged the dealer - so will see how that goes.

    A more extreme longer term option is the box is replaced with a controller that does a lot more. However time I donít have at the moment.

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  8. #205
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Whilst lunch was cooking I managed to find time to hook up another power supply I have - 12V and the controller board sprang to life, and even managed a wash cycle.

    So the system controller board is working perfectly and it's the PSU that's dead, and I think the water ingress is through the manual wash button - that seemed to have water behind it.

    Edit: the PSU has a circuit mounted fuse (needs desoldering).. so in reality it may be possible to revive the PSU. However that doesn't solve the water ingress, one option there is to replace the button with a fully sealed button. I'm going to look at the controls again tomorrow in more detail as I've found identical Chinese controls that aren't IP rated - not that I've been using the buttons in the rain (why get wet when it's automated right?).

    If I'm not comfortable with the answer I will replace the controls on the front.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

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  10. #206
    Nick - every time I see your posts in this topic it makes me feel less comfortable with my Draco system.....

  11. #207
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    So a check up on the PSU.

    PSU 250V 5A PCB mount fuse (the little brown block marked FS1) - looks ok, but tests as open so that is blown.

    IMG_8257 2.jpeg

    The PSU unfortunately didn't survive unscathed - this is a dead PSU. You can see the scorching and melting of the wire insulation to the legs of the main switching power transformer:

    IMG_8256.jpeg


    I rang the dealer but didn't have time to sit on the queue.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  12. #208
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    Nick - every time I see your posts in this topic it makes me feel less comfortable with my Draco system.....
    Not my intention - if your control box is not open to the elements then I suspect you'd never have a problem. If it's in a filter house - again no issues I suspect.

    I've been looking at some proper replacement switch gear:

    * IP 65, IP 66, IP 67 & IP 69K Double throw insulator "emergency mushroom" - the current switch only switches the live, it does not switch the neutral so it's not isolating.
    Something like this: 1222311 has two switches - one for live and one for neutral. That way the power is killed completely. I will also attach an earth, so if there is any water, it's going to prefer that than sit waiting for you to touch metal. Or this: 1238167
    Edit: just noted these are 600V but 120V also listed, this needs to switch 240V1.7A (PSU input rating). Need to have more of a think. (edit2 - I see the first is 3 A at 240 V, AC-15, A600 conforming to EN/IEC 60947-5-1 which is good).

    * IP65 Single throw momentary button "Manual Wash"
    Something like this: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/push-...units/3308638/ which is IP66, IP67, IP69, IP69K .. but there may be something a little cheaper such as an eaton switch.

    * IP66 Rotary switch: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/key-s...units/8475360/
    Something like this: 8475360 which has four positions, and is water proof. The electricity to this is at 'logic' level which is less than 5V, in fact it grounds to pull down the logic level. However with this you need to add the switch components too..
    IP65: 8317826

    Unfortunately you can't use something like these because they're not IP rated..
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Latching-Em.../dp/B00N429U1G
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/X-DREE-Perf.../dp/B08CZQ1Y7N
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  13. #209
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    So the news is I have to send the controller back to Draco for it to be fixed.

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  15. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    So the news is I have to send the controller back to Draco for it to be fixed.
    is it in warranty still? if not how much to fix?

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  17. #211
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markini5 View Post
    is it in warranty still? if not how much to fix?
    It’s warrantee just the faff and cost getting it up to draco. My view point is they should be paying for it.

    A PSU is about £16 but that doesn't fix the issue with water ingress. Draco have asked I send it back for repair - so the cost of a courier on top of that which is probably the same cost as a courier and return. Looking at the cost of IP65-67 rated panel buttons that's £10-30 per switch. From a product improvement point of view I can see their side that they want to inspect to improve product design.

    Long term I'm considering a 24V DIN rail based cabinet in the garage. I would run a 240V to 24V power supply, 24V battery backup and then use a step down 24V-12V converter for the drum. The 24V line would then also supply a 24V-240V AC step up for the air pump and/or UVC - or at least have an emergency air pump. I can then add 24V solar cells (or 48V with a 48-24V DC/DC converter) to power the pond.

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