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Thread: DIY Smart Pond

  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    DIY Smart Pond

    I'm a tinkerer and when I looked in through the dracodrum controller window I saw a PIC16F.. also my experience over the last few days has got me to think about things.. Arduino things.. Raspberry PI things.. WiFi sensor things.. GSM phone things.. thinking even ammonia probes... actually you could use a spectrograph grating and a raspberry pi camera (I built my own solar spectrograph in the past..).

    However from experience tech isn't the starting points - behaviour and more importantly, failure modes and failed states are.

    So before I start.. and this will be a long winded project, I thought I would start with some priorities of what is important rather than how - any comments welcome:

    Priority 1 - Pond water level is maintained
    Priority 2 - Pond oxygen is maintained
    Priority 3 - Pond nitrogen cycle toxcicity is maintained low (ie dump to waste with Topup as an option)

    Priority 4 - Filter bio oxygen is maintained
    Priority 5 - Filter bio water flow is maintained

    Priority 6 - Bakkishower water flow is maintained

    Priority 7 - Pond - filter - pond water flow is maintained.

    Priority 8 - Pond green water

    Now electricity, clean water supply and waste is a dependencies for most of the above. However reasons why things are failing tend to vary based on pond designs. The key is knowing what failures will impact which priorities..

    Things I may look at are - electricity and water efficiency too.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Another option is to use a Siemens Logo, you can pick them up quite cheaply and the reliability of a Industrial PLC will far exceed a raspberry pi or Arduino system, I did start a pond temperature project with a Raspberry Pi but never finished it, it was logging 3 temperatures and plotting a graph and storing historic data, i'll finish it off one day but too busy at the moment.

    Another option is an Alexa and smart plugs, I have a smart plug controlling my air pumps, I have 2 pumps, an EA130 and EA70 which put air into the pond at certain times of the day and only the Bio at others

    The key thing is not to make it to complicated or to automated as it has a tendency to fail, the more complex the more things to go wrong.

    Water level is easy, have a trickle in and overflow, again simple and effective
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    Another option is to use a Siemens Logo, you can pick them up quite cheaply and the reliability of a Industrial PLC will far exceed a raspberry pi or Arduino system, I did start a pond temperature project with a Raspberry Pi but never finished it, it was logging 3 temperatures and plotting a graph and storing historic data, i'll finish it off one day but too busy at the moment.

    Another option is an Alexa and smart plugs, I have a smart plug controlling my air pumps, I have 2 pumps, an EA130 and EA70 which put air into the pond at certain times of the day and only the Bio at others

    The key thing is not to make it to complicated or to automated as it has a tendency to fail, the more complex the more things to go wrong.

    Water level is easy, have a trickle in and overflow, again simple and effective

    lol guys i understood the trickle in and overflow but the rest of it all - well must of had too much beer
    2200 gallons,infinity window,
    Evolve 4k combi,spindrifter,
    2x20k pumps, BD,Skimmer,
    Shower, ASHP

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    True, I never thought of using Alexa/cortina/google etc as Pond control. The natural thing would be to provide a sense/feedback for the system.

    The problem with Logo is it’s proprietary nature and cost.

    I did formal specification for mathematically proving systems which is then translated into ADA for control systems at university. The problem is cost - if your system is designed to fail safe, then you can use cheaper components. The reason for many MOD changes to off the self products.

    Maybe the better option is making sensing (ie pH, chlorine, ammonia, nitrite/nitrates) rather than control.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    https://github.com/sparkfun/SparkFun...rduino_Library

    This seems interesting - use a spectrometer check the spectra (although it’s very limited in channel peaks).

    Another option is use a film grating, and a sensor.

  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    lol guys i understood the trickle in and overflow but the rest of it all - well must of had too much beer
    Or not enough?
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    True, I never thought of using Alexa/cortina/google etc as Pond control. The natural thing would be to provide a sense/feedback for the system.

    The problem with Logo is it’s proprietary nature and cost.

    I did formal specification for mathematically proving systems which is then translated into ADA for control systems at university. The problem is cost - if your system is designed to fail safe, then you can use cheaper components. The reason for many MOD changes to off the self products.

    Maybe the better option is making sensing (ie pH, chlorine, ammonia, nitrite/nitrates) rather than control.
    I'm an automation engineer in the food and beverage industry and I know from experience how fail safe devices fail with catastrophic results, PLC are by nature reliable and you pay for that reliability, although even they fail, the Siemens Logo's are cheap by comparison but you need to have the software as that is a paid licence m(obviously there are always around things like that) I have 3 Siemens Logo's and 2 Raspberry Pi's and a Rockwell 500 PLC sitting at home but I believe that for control you are better off with old school, relay logic at best.

    A monitoring circuit would be an option as well as a camera or two, I have a couple of air pressure switches and air flow sensors so I can easily monitor the air going into my pond, a standard sensor could monitor valve position

    But for my what matters is temperature and water parameters and possibly water height, I was planning an upgrade to my drum control system as its pretty basic at the moment, which was why I got hold of the Logo's
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    This is what I was looking at doing for the temperature sensors and logging

    https://github.com/Pyplate/rpi_temp_logger/pull/3/files
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  15. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    This is what I was looking at doing for the temperature sensors and logging

    https://github.com/Pyplate/rpi_temp_logger/pull/3/files
    I see it's using an SQL database on a raspberry PI. I've used an ODroid C2 to run a telescope system (including astrometrics, servo-based focusing (Arduino+DRV8825), star tracking and photography) - so the Pi has plenty of power spare! You could run a small TFT touch screen with it for displaying/navigating data.

    Given the hassle with ODroid over the years, I think sticking with Pi running Ubuntu. The ODroid at the time had a performance edge for that project but I think for this it would be simple Arduino WiFi for speed with the devices/sensors and then Pi for any flashy gizmo/control on the top.

    Also trying to figure out if the EA Varipumps are actually DC or AC pumps (I know they're 6 pole, three phase). The Jebao version seem to be DC 24V but the Varipump could be an AC version although they look identical.


    Liking the look of this wee beastie: 0900766b81533fcd.pdf. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/proce...-kits/1245500/
    It's got an ARM M0 core CPU with 256KB flash and 32KB RAM, separate-chip WiFi (no sucking CPU), Realtime-clock, rechargeable battery support and of course is small and is Arduino compatible (also mini-USB so easy programming and power). I note it's flash rather than EEPROM so there's a small delay at load up. I think you'd need a separate SD chip for storage though.

    Couple that with a couple of solid-state relay for operating 24V solenoids or motors; then add a small LED screen (careful for low temps being outside), some water proof switches, temp sensor in the drum (it's going to be the same temp as the bottom drain but easier to get to!) and a few other things - perhaps a SD card for logging data as a simple circular dump.

    Although for the same cost you could probably go down the Pi+WiFi route.. running ubuntu etc.

    That, to me, would be powerful enough to manage everything by itself, even have some intelligence.

  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    I have been thinking about Variable Frequency Drives (vfd) but for 1/2 AC wave air pumps. A solid state relay providing the AC wave form with caps to round off the square wave could be a cheap alternative to full inversion.

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  18. #11
    An “improved” Seneye would be a killer product or some kind of affordable water tester that measures the basics without all the faffing around with test tubes and bottles of liquids.


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
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    can use piston or ifttt to run full air if thunder predicted
    the slow pond build thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    An “improved” Seneye would be a killer product or some kind of affordable water tester that measures the basics without all the faffing around with test tubes and bottles of liquids.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Looking at sense eye, it’s a colourometer. A spectrograph is the other option.

    I had a look at separating NH3, NO2 and NO3. It’s possible but the research papers I saw indicated a 1nm resolution. Will have a further look.

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  23. #14
    I’m guessing if it was doable commercially then someone would have done it by now. There’s probably good reasons why Seneye haven’t added any more functionality to the system. For what it does I find it pretty decent albeit it’s expensive.


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    I’m guessing if it was doable commercially then someone would have done it by now. There’s probably good reasons why Seneye haven’t added any more functionality to the system. For what it does I find it pretty decent albeit it’s expensive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If you knew the formula for the reagents (and they and probably well known) you could purchase the chemicals in bulk, making them cheaper.

    I’m interested in the spectroscope though. If there’s a cheap plastic way of differentiating between the chemicals and getting the right absorption spectra of light I may have a look.
    Will also have a look at emission spectra too - could use a butane burner rather than get into lasers.

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    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    well the first 7 i have already on my 2 old kc-10 drums and nexus 200 plus momotaro shower 1 i can fit a automated valve as sensor already built in to drum controller to control water height , although at moment this is done through my nexus with a torbeck valve
    2,my seneye tells me pond oxygen content
    3,my drums auto clean when dirty so nitrogen levels kept down
    4,nexus has huge bio chamber with constant oxygen
    5,3 pumps constantly running
    6,20k pump always running
    7,pumps always running again
    and 8 is covered with the uv plus my pond is enclosed fully
    as i run 2 bd if 1 drum went down i still have the other and if they both went i can easily connect nexus to bd ,if something goes wrong with water level dropping or too much ammonia or ph then seneye app on my phone alerts me,,,,,andi

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  29. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowsaw View Post
    can use piston or ifttt to run full air if thunder predicted
    You could use a 24V system - mains to 24V DC and solar to 24V DC. Charge a couple of 12V deep cycle batteries then use those if the power drops out. Then invert back to a AC sine wave and boost the power to 240V for any devices.
    The EA pumps I think follow the 24V DC sine wave approach, so you could make a 24V DC sine wave 3phase motor driver.
    It is possible to run air on 24V but because of the compressibility and pressures requires it’s not going to be very efficient.
    Still working this one through tbh. You need enough mag flux to pull the piston against the spring strength. The spring strength then provides the pressure.. there’s some resonance to help efficiencies but you still need a certain amount of energy in each diaphragm or piston cycle.

    UVCs aren’t really that difficult to run on 24V but old bulky ballasts would be more difficult to having bulbs with in built ballasts. However I would have these as lower priority so can be left off the “life support” of a pond.

    System could easily alert at the same time.

    Add in a lightning detector however putting in a over voltage circuit may be better. However it’s likely that the house breaker or utility company would trip in a lightning strike on power lines.

  30. #18
    I’m lost now

    One thing I’ve put on my system which could be improved is the switchbox.
    It’s a “tidy” solution and yes, it shuts pumps down if there’s a problem and it’ll beep/flash to alert you which is fine if you’re around the house but I’d like to know if there was an issue if I was away.
    The facility to send a text/email alert on this would be a massive improvement.
    Same on my drum controller although I think Aquasource have upgraded these to do that now. I’ll check with Deano to see if that’s something that can be retro fitted. Would be great to be able to control things like this from a phone.


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  32. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andikoi View Post
    well the first 7 i have already on my 2 old kc-10 drums and nexus 200 plus momotaro shower 1 i can fit a automated valve as sensor already built in to drum controller to control water height , although at moment this is done through my nexus with a torbeck valve
    2,my seneye tells me pond oxygen content
    3,my drums auto clean when dirty so nitrogen levels kept down
    4,nexus has huge bio chamber with constant oxygen
    5,3 pumps constantly running
    6,20k pump always running
    7,pumps always running again
    and 8 is covered with the uv plus my pond is enclosed fully
    as i run 2 bd if 1 drum went down i still have the other and if they both went i can easily connect nexus to bd ,if something goes wrong with water level dropping or too much ammonia or ph then seneye app on my phone alerts me,,,,,andi
    I’d be interested in finding a LDO (finding O2 optically rather than use a permeable membrane That could be affected by dirt and bio film).

    By varying rates of pumps and air, it can same money in the long term, using solar to reduce it faster.

  33. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion andikoi's Avatar
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    also have solar on house so do save money during the day when sunny,and all pumps and the drums are 24v lol,,,,andi

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