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Thread: DIY Smart Pond

  1. #41
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    But at least now I know what buttons to press DIY Smart PondDIY Smart PondDIY Smart PondDIY Smart Pond


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    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

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  2. #42
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    Lol that’s not my password, I’m not going to post that on here DIY Smart Pond this was the original software before modifying to to suite my application.

    It’s also protected by software and hardware firewalls and the ports are not accessible from outside of my automation VLAN, this isn’t even my house LAN
    Well when someone has a patch panel and Cisco rack mount hardware I suspected as much #woodenspoon


    Also this temperature sensor is really interesting as you can run multiple sensors off the same three wires, taking up one data pin on the controller as each sensor has it's own hard coded serial number onboard. Not sure on maximum bus distance compatibility but interesting none the less and there's probably waterproof version of this for submerging:

    https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub...arduino-9cc806

  3. #43
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    Well when someone has a patch panel and Cisco rack mount hardware I suspected as much #woodenspoon


    Also this temperature sensor is really interesting as you can run multiple sensors off the same three wires, taking up one data pin on the controller as each sensor has it's own hard coded serial number onboard. Not sure on maximum bus distance compatibility but interesting none the less and there's probably waterproof version of this for submerging:

    https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub...arduino-9cc806
    Iíll be testing the bus distance soon when I try to add another sensor in the greenhouse, so thatís going to add 6meters to the bus

    The sensors are waterproof, well the ones in my pond are


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  5. #44
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    I will at some point be installing Apache server and add the graphs to a web page, then get access remotely, but first I will add a feeding timer that works via time, daylight and temperature, so food is cut if the nightís draw in and increase with warmer water, obviously this will take some time, mainly on testing

    I also want to be able to turn the air on and off from the webpage, plus set timers etc, this does work through my phone but I want it all on one webpage


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    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  6. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Well I found a little floor in my Temperature monitor, like all PC's, it goes to sleep after a period of time and stops recording, it took some figuring out what was happening as it just stopped responding, eventually I realised it was the PC going into sleep mode to save power, so I had to install a screensaver software and turn off hibernation from that, the little things that test us, anyway its now tracking data quite well, just need to get all the probes in position, especially the one at the bottom of the pond
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  7. #46
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    And automatic updates?

    For the Astro folks - windows update in the middle of the nigh photography run caused no end of problems!

    Iíll be interested in hearing how that goes.

  8. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Like your ideas here Roy DIY Smart Pond

    What probes are you using for the temperature?

    I would likely to have a play about, I have the coding experience but lack the hardware knowledge.


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  9. #48
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    I used the standard DS18B20 sensors, very cheap and on a 1-wire bus, so it only takes up one input on the Raspberry Pi

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/DS18b20-Wat...34248784&psc=1

    I need to find some more probes that will work for dissolved oxygen and I may also do a combined temperature and humidity for the ambient air

    I have the hardware experience just not a lot on coding
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  10. #49
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Mikeh83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    I used the standard DS18B20 sensors, very cheap and on a 1-wire bus, so it only takes up one input on the Raspberry Pi

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/DS18b20-Wat...34248784&psc=1

    I need to find some more probes that will work for dissolved oxygen and I may also do a combined temperature and humidity for the ambient air

    I have the hardware experience just not a lot on coding
    Thanks for sharing I will look into it.

    Most my coding experience is with sql, C# itís my day job. I find with coding itís mostly transferable just basic syntax variations.


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  12. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Thanks for sharing I will look into it.

    Most my coding experience is with sql, C# it’s my day job. I find with coding it’s mostly transferable just basic syntax variations.
    Well if you can do sql then you have the database sorted, I did try using sql on my first attempt but due to work and it not working I gave up for some time and then when the influxdb route, its based on a project from circuits.dk but this was using Debian Stretch and I am using Debian Buster and nothing seemed to work properly so it had to be changed to suite the new version, but this shows you all the hardware connections as well

    https://www.circuits.dk/temperature-...-raspberry-pi/
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  13. #51
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeh83 View Post
    Thanks for sharing I will look into it.

    Most my coding experience is with sql, C# it’s my day job. I find with coding it’s mostly transferable just basic syntax variations.
    Cool

    I stopped professionally coding as as day job in 2005 - software engineering degree specialising in parallel and distributed computing. C/C++/SQL/Java mainly. I still do the odd bit of ASM/C/C++/Objective-C with GPU parallel image processing (mainly image alignment, image resolution and atmospheric deconvolution, along with FIR etc) and embedded stuff with Arduino/ODroid/PI. I've moved a little to using Octave (open source Matlab clone) as it allows you to focus on the maths and not worry too much about the processing (although octave itself is single threaded without recompiling MPI support!). Recently been playing with OpenFOAM to model the water flow in the pond.

    Back to the topic..

    I see that InfluxDB supports JWT authentication - that would be better than using a username/password.

  14. #52
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    An interesting project for those with Ozone systems: https://create.arduino.cc/projecthub...bration-a19805

    This allows you to check the redox level in your pond - to extrapolate you could then use he Arduino to switch on/off the ozone system.

    Add a TDS probe too; https://www.robotshop.com/uk/gravity...r-arduino.html for finer reverse osmosis control
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  15. #53
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    The more I research this on crappy non-pond days the more I see that MODBUS is probably the way to go.

    MODBUS is an industry standard from the 1980s, still in use and has virtually every device or sensor you could imagine already available. It runs on four wires - two data and two to supply 24V power. Being 24V it is pond safe and the sensors can be daisy chained (even through repeaters) as the protocol was designed for long cable runs. There's a mass of DIN rail components that are MODBUS, and those components being easily connected with a wire and a screwdriver. 24V PSUs also exist in DIN form - so it's easy to setup all you need.

    This means you can control relays, read sensors, control lights, have press buttons etc all connected.

    MODBUS itself is the communications protocol but it runs through RS485 which is the hardware standard. The only thing you will need if you're adding a Arduino or Pi is a galvanic/optical isolator shield so you can keep the controller safe but also separate 24V and the digital 3.3V or 5V sections separate. The communications rate can also be set up to 112500 baud which is fast enough for most stuff as we're not transferring images or processing data in so fast. One thing to note that an Ardiuno Uno is not fast enough for the fastest baud rate, but a raspberry PI would do nicely.

    So far I've found the following with MODBUS with native support:
    * weather station - ambient temperature, wind and sunlight level.
    * 240V relays for switching devices on/off including water valves, pumps, etc
    * variable frequency drives - able to vary the frequency of 240V to a device, thus slow down or speed up motors, air pumps etc.
    * water level sensors
    * water temperature sensors
    * ultrasonic water flow rate sensors
    * sensor boards - analogue (ADC) and Digital
    * digital interface boards for ardiuno and pi
    * microcontroller boards (ie industrial)
    * displays (although these tend to be more basic and single purpose than something attached to a ardiuno/pi.
    * 24V uninterruptible supply power that connects and charges a 24V battery - the Arduino could be powered from the 24V rail for example with a step down power supply.
    * repeaters - allowing you to extend or segment (ie if one modus line gets a short circuit it can be shut own and protect the rest of the system).
    * GSM modems so you could send text updates/alerts for lack of power - but these are horrifically expensive, so it may be better to run a Arduino/pi attached GSM modem.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  16. #54
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    The more I research this on crappy non-pond days the more I see that MODBUS is probably the way to go.

    MODBUS is an industry standard from the 1980s, still in use and has virtually every device or sensor you could imagine already available. It runs on four wires - two data and two to supply 24V power. Being 24V it is pond safe and the sensors can be daisy chained (even through repeaters) as the protocol was designed for long cable runs. There's a mass of DIN rail components that are MODBUS, and those components being easily connected with a wire and a screwdriver. 24V PSUs also exist in DIN form - so it's easy to setup all you need.

    This means you can control relays, read sensors, control lights, have press buttons etc all connected.

    MODBUS itself is the communications protocol but it runs through RS485 which is the hardware standard. The only thing you will need if you're adding a Arduino or Pi is a galvanic/optical isolator shield so you can keep the controller safe but also separate 24V and the digital 3.3V or 5V sections separate. The communications rate can also be set up to 112500 baud which is fast enough for most stuff as we're not transferring images or processing data in so fast. One thing to note that an Ardiuno Uno is not fast enough for the fastest baud rate, but a raspberry PI would do nicely.

    So far I've found the following with MODBUS with native support:
    * weather station - ambient temperature, wind and sunlight level.
    * 240V relays for switching devices on/off including water valves, pumps, etc
    * variable frequency drives - able to vary the frequency of 240V to a device, thus slow down or speed up motors, air pumps etc.
    * water level sensors
    * water temperature sensors
    * ultrasonic water flow rate sensors
    * sensor boards - analogue (ADC) and Digital
    * digital interface boards for ardiuno and pi
    * microcontroller boards (ie industrial)
    * displays (although these tend to be more basic and single purpose than something attached to a ardiuno/pi.
    * 24V uninterruptible supply power that connects and charges a 24V battery - the Arduino could be powered from the 24V rail for example with a step down power supply.
    * repeaters - allowing you to extend or segment (ie if one modus line gets a short circuit it can be shut own and protect the rest of the system).
    * GSM modems so you could send text updates/alerts for lack of power - but these are horrifically expensive, so it may be better to run a Arduino/pi attached GSM modem.
    I think we stopped using modbus years ago, moved on to ASI, same type of thing really, daisy chain all the units and runs on a coms and power cable 24 volts DC? I think, I have quite a bit of ASI stuff lying around, not sure if I will ever get around to using it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  17. #55
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    I think we stopped using modbus years ago, moved on to ASI, same type of thing really, daisy chain all the units and runs on a coms and power cable 24 volts DC? I think, I have quite a bit of ASI stuff lying around, not sure if I will ever get around to using it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yup, as long as itís cheap, easy to install/program with lots of devices

  18. #56
    I have kept koi since the early 90s and although my filter systems began as rather rudimentary affairs that's almost thirty years of running pumps, etc 24/7.

    Smart control in my book translates to as many parameters as possible being monitored with sensors and various actuators working to maintain as stable water conditions as possible.
    My very limited experience with such devices meant calibrating and checking the devices as opposed to making direct measurements and taking action myself. Somehow in this hobby, although we crave for gadget automation we feel the need to be constantly checking and looking for an excuse to go into our filter rooms

    So for me, full smart control for my latest pond was not a priority. This will not be the case for others.

    This is why. I have lost multiple fish twice. On one occasion, mid Winter, I lost 14 fish (up to 24") over two weeks in water well above 4C and we never found the cause (even had one fish sent for examination).
    However, the other time in mid Summer I lost my two biggest fish (over 24") while we were away on holiday. The freezer blew and tripped one RCD bank in our consumer unit. The filter pump was on the same circuit.

    During my current build I decided to concentrate on "emergency back up" measures to keep the system alive if a fault and/or power failure occurs while we are away in our caravan.

    The back up system includes two 110Ah deep cycle leisure batteries wired in parallel to give me 240Ah at 12V (fed to an inverter).

    #1. Main pump fails - flow switch detects - relay operates to switch on low current back up pump (powered by batteries on autocharger) - run time unlimited.
    #2. House RCD bank powering main pump trips - relay detects and switches to the other RCD bank. Run time unlimited. If other RCD bank trips go to #4.
    #3. Drum rotation/rinse fails - drum screens block - main pump flow drops(may switch off as built in auto protect) - flow switch detects - low flow back up pump switches on. As the screen becomes totally blocked the clean side water level will drop further and further and a DIY float controlled drum bypass opens to feed back up pump.
    #4. Power cut - flow switch detects - low current back up pump turns on (approximately 5 days run time on batteries alone). A power cut also stops the drum so as #3.

    To maximise failsafe run time I decided that keeping at least some circulation through the filter was the most important thing to preserve. Sure, without air pumps and UV the system would be sub optimal and bacterial action could drop right back, but at least it would survive.
    Also, my "automatic switching" is all done using good quality relays - simple, robust, reliable.

    Edit: I also have an alert module with built in SIM which sends me a "Pump off" text if the main pump stops for whatever reason. Plus remote CCTV view of pump LCD status display, water temperature and Drum panel. This leads to #5 If all measures fail I activate my backup backup and phone my son who lives nearby and just hope he is at home.


    Note:
    I wonder how many drum owners have considered the impact of drum failure.
    The fine screens on most drums will block surprisingly quickly in the growing season when debris and filter load is at its highest.
    Last edited by Ukzero; 25-11-2020 at 03:45 PM.
    My DIY ponds from 1988 until present day.
    All can be found here:
    https://www.ukzero.com/pond.htm

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  20. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ukzero View Post
    I have kept koi since the early 90s and although my filter systems began as rather rudimentary affairs that's almost thirty years of running pumps, etc 24/7.

    Smart control in my book translates to as many parameters as possible being monitored with sensors and various actuators working to maintain as stable water conditions as possible.
    My very limited experience with such devices meant calibrating and checking the devices as opposed to making direct measurements and taking action myself. Somehow in this hobby, although we crave for gadget automation we feel the need to be constantly checking and looking for an excuse to go into our filter rooms

    So for me, full smart control for my latest pond was not a priority. This will not be the case for others.

    This is why. I have lost multiple fish twice. On one occasion, mid Winter, I lost 14 fish (up to 24") over two weeks in water well above 4C and we never found the cause (even had one fish sent for examination).
    However, the other time in mid Summer I lost my two biggest fish (over 24") while we were away on holiday. The freezer blew and tripped one RCD bank in our consumer unit. The filter pump was on the same circuit.

    During my current build I decided to concentrate on "emergency back up" measures to keep the system alive if a fault and/or power failure occurs while we are away in our caravan.

    The back up system includes two 110Ah deep cycle leisure batteries wired in parallel to give me 240Ah at 12V (fed to an inverter).

    #1. Main pump fails - flow switch detects - relay operates to switch on low current back up pump (powered by batteries on autocharger) - run time unlimited.
    #2. House RCD bank powering main pump trips - relay detects and switches to the other RCD bank. Run time unlimited. If other RCD bank trips go to #4.
    #3. Drum rotation/rinse fails - drum screens block - main pump flow drops(may switch off as built in auto protect) - flow switch detects - low flow back up pump switches on. As the screen becomes totally blocked the clean side water level will drop further and further and a DIY float controlled drum bypass opens to feed back up pump.
    #4. Power cut - flow switch detects - low current back up pump turns on (approximately 5 days run time on batteries alone). A power cut also stops the drum so as #3.

    To maximise failsafe run time I decided that keeping at least some circulation through the filter was the most important thing to preserve. Sure, without air pumps and UV the system would be sub optimal and bacterial action could drop right back, but at least it would survive.
    Also, my "automatic switching" is all done using good quality relays - simple, robust, reliable.

    Edit: I also have an alert module with built in SIM which sends me a "Pump off" text if the main pump stops for whatever reason. Plus remote CCTV view of pump LCD status display, water temperature and Drum panel. This leads to #5 If all measures fail I activate my backup backup and phone my son who lives nearby and just hope he is at home.


    Note:
    I wonder how many drum owners have considered the impact of drum failure.
    The fine screens on most drums will block surprisingly quickly in the growing season when debris and filter load is at its highest.
    Iím never going on holiday againDIY Smart Pond


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  21. #58
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai Paul2005's Avatar
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    Switch box set up

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Iím lost now

    One thing Iíve put on my system which could be improved is the switchbox.
    Itís a ďtidyĒ solution and yes, it shuts pumps down if thereís a problem and itíll beep/flash to alert you which is fine if youíre around the house but Iíd like to know if there was an issue if I was away.
    The facility to send a text/email alert on this would be a massive improvement.
    Same on my drum controller although I think Aquasource have upgraded these to do that now. Iíll check with Deano to see if thatís something that can be retro fitted. Would be great to be able to control things like this from a phone.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi,Bigcarpchaser

    could you post a bit more info about your control box, in particular the beep & flash. My control box is playing up & Im trying to find a suitable replacement.

    regards
    Fibreglass / block 4500 G pool, Aerated BD, Profidrum S/S RDF, Amalgams, Bio Chamber, Bakki shower

 

 
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