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  1. #1
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Mr V's Avatar
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    Tile Backer Board

    Greetings

    In preparing my concrete block built pond for DIY fibre glassing, I was wondering if tile back board would work to line the pond - the cement based ones.

    Has anyone tried using this stuff, or aware if it has been used successfully? I cannot find much about it for ponds when searching.

    Obtaining pu foam sheets seems to be costly (the carriage) and I was just wondering about backer boards as an alternative to celotex from the local builders merchant.

    The tile backer boards seem to be polysterene sandwiched between two sheets of fibre reinforced cement.

    Cheers

    Simon



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I'm sure they would work fine if you are fibreglassing over them.

    However the question is, do you want the pond insulated? If so they will provide little to no insulation, in which case pir boards/celotex/kingspan would be the way to go.

    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai 118's Avatar
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    Democracy falls down at the point where you have to persuade stupid people to vote for you..

  5. #4
    Not been funny bud, I would seriously think about getting someone who does glassing on a regular basis, its a lot of money to waste if it goes wrong,
    There's more to it than you'd think

    Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk

  6. #5
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Mr V's Avatar
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    Thank you - Most of the pond is below ground, so I was not prioritising insulation.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr V View Post
    Thank you - Most of the pond is below ground, so I was not prioritising insulation.
    Get a price bud and see if the budget stretches
    Give Matt grp lining services a call, knows his stuff and does a top job

    Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk

  8. #7
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Mr V's Avatar
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    Noted Karlos.....I'm still inclined to go for it myself. Would love to pay for someone else to do it, but limited by budget (garden landscaping also).

    I have decided against using tile backer board, because it has a polystyrene core and am worried about how that will react with the resin on the edges and ends. I have taken the plunge and ordered 12mm pu foam sheets.

    What would your suggestions be on what to bond the pu sheets onto concrete blocks with? I have cost free access to rapid set flexible tile adhesive?

    Regards

    Simon

  9. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    Polyester resin mixed with talc makes a fixing paste.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Alburglar's Avatar
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    Last video I watched was the same but slate powder which must be an alternative to talc.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Use the cheapest adhesive you can find. Maybe pink grip stuff?

    As long as whatever you use holds them securely in place, job done. You don't need to spend loads of money on fancy adhesives to stick the sheets to the pond wall. Once fibreglassed the fibreglass and then the weight of the water will hold them in place.

    I fibreglassed my pond myself having not had any experience doing so.

    If you really want to DIY it, be warned it's a pretty horrible job. The fumes are awful.

    A few pointers.

    Watch YouTube videos. Learning how to layup, roller the glass and how to fibreglass into bottom drains, pond returns and skimmers is the more technical bit. Get that wrong and you'll have leaks on your hands. Also you need to learn watch % of catalyst to add, this will be governed by the temperature on the day.

    Whatever you do, never go below the minimum recommended amount of catalyst, otherwise it may not cure properly!

    Make sure the whole pond is covered with a marquee or something similar. It must be bone dry inside and it cannot be rained on when curing. Also you want to keep the sunlight off it as well, as strong sunlight will make it cure super fast due to the added heat.

    Have fans ready, you'll probably need them to blow the fumes out to assist curing. Also to blow fresh air in to the pond to stop you being overcome with fumes.

    However much resin you get (if buying as a kit) buy about 25% extra. And make sure you have enough catalyst for the extra resin. The pros make it look easy. As an amateur, you'll probably have quite a lot go off in the roller tray.

    Make sure you have spare rollers, plenty of acetone and sand paper. Also plenty of gloves. I have latex/nitrile gloves, but they were melted by the resin at a rate of knots.

    Make sure you have old clothes that you don't mind getting ruined. I chucked mine away after more because the stench of the fumes was getting too much - it really lingers.

    The pros will lay up a 2m sheet of fibreglass and make it look easy. Start with 1m lengths (have loads precut to save faffing). These are more manageable.

    Make you sure you really wet out each sheet and really consolidate it well with the ribbed roller before moving on.

    Even though I was liberal with the resin, when I completed mine it leaked like a sieve due to pin holes. I had to sand it all back and reapply resin then top coat again. That was an expensive mistake!

    Will you be doing a tissue coat to finish it off? If so be warned, it is tricky stuff to work with as it very easily stocks to the roller or starts spider webbing up if it catches on the ribbed roller.

    Hopefully those few pointers will help.

    Mine looked really good in the end and is finally waterproof, but it was not a easy thing to do.


    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  13. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Use the cheapest adhesive you can find. Maybe pink grip stuff?

    As long as whatever you use holds them securely in place, job done. You don't need to spend loads of money on fancy adhesives to stick the sheets to the pond wall. Once fibreglassed the fibreglass and then the weight of the water will hold them in place.

    I fibreglassed my pond myself having not had any experience doing so.

    If you really want to DIY it, be warned it's a pretty horrible job. The fumes are awful.

    A few pointers.

    Watch YouTube videos. Learning how to layup, roller the glass and how to fibreglass into bottom drains, pond returns and skimmers is the more technical bit. Get that wrong and you'll have leaks on your hands. Also you need to learn watch % of catalyst to add, this will be governed by the temperature on the day.

    Whatever you do, never go below the minimum recommended amount of catalyst, otherwise it may not cure properly!

    Make sure the whole pond is covered with a marquee or something similar. It must be bone dry inside and it cannot be rained on when curing. Also you want to keep the sunlight off it as well, as strong sunlight will make it cure super fast due to the added heat.

    Have fans ready, you'll probably need them to blow the fumes out to assist curing. Also to blow fresh air in to the pond to stop you being overcome with fumes.

    However much resin you get (if buying as a kit) buy about 25% extra. And make sure you have enough catalyst for the extra resin. The pros make it look easy. As an amateur, you'll probably have quite a lot go off in the roller tray.

    Make sure you have spare rollers, plenty of acetone and sand paper. Also plenty of gloves. I have latex/nitrile gloves, but they were melted by the resin at a rate of knots.

    Make sure you have old clothes that you don't mind getting ruined. I chucked mine away after more because the stench of the fumes was getting too much - it really lingers.

    The pros will lay up a 2m sheet of fibreglass and make it look easy. Start with 1m lengths (have loads precut to save faffing). These are more manageable.

    Make you sure you really wet out each sheet and really consolidate it well with the ribbed roller before moving on.

    Even though I was liberal with the resin, when I completed mine it leaked like a sieve due to pin holes. I had to sand it all back and reapply resin then top coat again. That was an expensive mistake!

    Will you be doing a tissue coat to finish it off? If so be warned, it is tricky stuff to work with as it very easily stocks to the roller or starts spider webbing up if it catches on the ribbed roller.

    Hopefully those few pointers will help.

    Mine looked really good in the end and is finally waterproof, but it was not a easy thing to do.


    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    I though long and hard about building a block pond and fibre glassing it myself....

    but having seen you tube videos of professional guys doing it, and the cost of materials, i'd rather pay someone else to do it.
    and i'm a diehard DIY'er

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  15. #12
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Mr V's Avatar
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    Thanks so much folks and points taken.

    I've watched Matt's youtube videos so often and learn something new every time.

    I've literally just erected a gazebo with sides to keep the forecasted showers out ahead of FG-Day. Good shout about getting some additional rollers - I bought a kit which has four in it, but I will pick up a couple more. I did over estimate my pond surface sqm size, by mistake, so actually have a much larger kit than needed. I shall be cutting the glass matting/sheets on Friday. The kit also came with a whole box of latex gloves. And yes, I intend to layer up a tissue coat - thanks for the heads up on the fiddliness of it.

    Based on the temperature forecast Saturday, I'll be starting with a 2.00% catalyst....

    My brother in law will be here to assist also if I need a third hand (as long as he doesn't start the old 'if this was my pond, I would...'). But, it's only a small pond, what is the worse that can happen......

    I'll report back in due course.

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  17. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    It's probably worth checking where your nearest fibreglass provider is in case you need to dash out to buy extra of anything. As I say you'll probably need more resin.

    I made about 3 visits to a place, which was unfortunately 40mins away, which robbed me of a lot of time.

    Do you have sealant for when you glass into the bottom drain, pond returns and skimmers?

    Also in terms of sanding, have you got a mechanical sander? If not I'd recommend having one to hand. As it'll make any sanding you need to do much quicker!

    Keep us posted how you get on. The weather looks set to improve from Thursday onwards.

    Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  19. #14
    Junior Member Rank = Fry Mr V's Avatar
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    Update.....

    So I went for it the weekend before, laying two sheets of 450gm matting. It went in really well around the pond return, bottom drain and skimmer ( I had done a good key on the plastics and primed it with Prymax).

    What didn't go well, was that I had a few lumps appear as it was curing - I perhaps did not do a good enough job with the paddle roller to consolidate the layers. I could not see any trapped air at the time. The lumps were like volcano shape, rather than mounds/hills.

    With the lumps, I took a multitool to them and cut them level, cutting away any unconsolidated edges of the matting. Then filled them with resin and then patched over them with some more 450gm matting.

    I noticed dry matting in some of the corners, but that was easy enough to fill the corners with resin.

    Sanded all over, checked for any bits where the resin looked compromised, then laid the tissue sheet over during the week.

    Top coated it yesterday. It looks alright. If I were to do it again, I could probably get a better/tidier finish.

    I did use a lot of resin, but fortunately I ordered a 25sqm kit for a 16sqm pond, so did not run out. In fact, I even laminated in a third layer of 450gm matting on the floor.

    On the advice of above TWNS, I bought additional rollers, and they were needed. This aspect cannot be understated......In trying to eek out maximum use of each roller, I was using them as they were going off, which was actually counter productive. As the roller loses its flexibility, it does not force the resin into the matting as easily, so I was ending up using more resin to wet out the matting. As I was learning the process, the outcomes were best when using less resin, but applying more pressure with a supple roller.

    The last thing to do later today is to apply some sealant around the edges at the bottom drain and return.

    Thanks again all.

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