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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinghamkoi View Post
    Just thinking then, so if I'm losing a bit, that'll give me about a 2 hour turn over. Anything wrong with that? Do you need the big flow for any other reason than turnover time considerations?
    2 hour turnover is spot on for a K1 bio, you don't want it any faster or you get incomplete nitrification.
    only need faster turn over for less fines, keep the bottom drain pipework clean, or to run a shower.

    my 11500 litres has a 4" skimmer line, 4" bottom drain, to a drum then one feed to a bio and another to a shower,
    about 25,000 lph actual so about twice an hour, but my main filtration is the shower...

  2. #22
    Spot on thank you. I'm going full on maverick. Might need to change it but we'll see. I'm running bd into a vortex, nothing in it at all, literally diy barrel for poo to fall into. That's going into a diy sieve. Both with have flush valves. From there it'll go to pump straight to wetland filter. 1ft deep filled with nothing but 20mm gravel and crap loving plants, that'll have a porous wall so water will then trickle back into pond. This, at the moment will be powered by a 9000lph submersible, in a barrel of water. Then I'm going to have a diy skimmer housing my 8000lph submersible pump and maybe a few brushes, that'll run to my diy waterfall, which will house a bag of bioballs. So nothing will be in a rush. How does this sound to everyone? And with all this considered, relatively low pump power, is 4" still the verdict? And you're sure it'll not need purging every 5 minutes? Single aerated bd planned. 11000l pond (ish)

  3. #23
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I still think you should revisit your wetland idea - specifically the bit where you talk about filling it with gravel.

    Pretty much all koi you buy these days are riddled with parasites - even when buying from reputable dealers.

    If you put a load of gravel in. Not only are you providing a nice little home for the parasites to live in ( so they survive all the treatments you throw in the pond). But it also creates a nice habitat for bad bacteria to grow in and crap to build up in.

    And if you think parasites arent anything to worry about, just have a look at all the threads on here where people have spent £100's on treatments and still not killed them off. They're an absolute nightmare!

    Plus adding gravel will make cleaning it an awful job.

    If you want a wetland bio filter, I would opt for anoxic baskets - which can be removed if you need to clean the wetland area out, and can also contain plants to add to the natural look/remove nitrates from your water.


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    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  5. #24
    Thanks for that, my planned wetland area will be beside the pond, not in it and there will be no standing water. That being said though, I do get what you're saying and have looked a little bit at anoxic. Parasites will go into completely covered up ponds with no access to any external factors and still manage to get in, so I think if you're gonna get em you're gonna get em regardless. On the bacteria question, I know the plants will convert to nitrate but I did wonder whether I should add an oxygen line to my 'centipede pod'. I had planned on onion sacking all but the very too finishing layer of gravel to couple with my snorkel for easy cleaning. All opinions are taken on board so thank you for your valued input

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  7. #25
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I think you've missed the point I'm making about parasites.

    Yes you almost certainly will get parasites if adding new fish. My point is you will find it impossible to get rid of them with a ton of gravel giving them somewhere to hide.

    Trust me, you will be pulling your hair out, spending loads on repeated treatments (especially if you get flukes) which knock your fish for six but still don't work and the fish keep picking up injuries trying to rid themselves of parasites. They're a bloody nightmare. Don't underestimate how much of a nuisance parasites are when it comes to koi, which let face it are highly inbred animals with fairly weak immune systems.

    Hence why designing a pond that keeps it as clean as possible and therefore so that they don't have anywhere to hide is imperative.

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  9. #26
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinghamkoi View Post
    Loving the good humour, genuinely. See, that's what I was thinking, if it works so well why isn't everyone doing it? And I definitely do not want to ever see it again once it's in. So for 4" pipe, will my 9000lph submersible cut the mustard and pull it through alright?
    ~18Klph through a 4Ē pipe under gravity fed conditions. You may get more/less depending on the route and depth gradient.

    I have 4Ē/110mm thoughout. Itís important to understand that gravity feed likes low friction/back pressure so minimising restriction and using sloping bends rather than 90 elbows helps alot.
    Eco Pond: 13,000 litres, 20K+ lph Airlifts, 1300l anoxic, Solum 16. No pump. 58W total.

  10. #27
    Yeah thank you I totally get the point you're making thank you and appreciate the advice honestly. That's been my little niggle about wetlands all along really so totally hear you. Are there any natural predators of these parasites?

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  12. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    ~18Klph through a 4Ē pipe under gravity fed conditions. You may get more/less depending on the route and depth
    I have 4Ē/110mm thoughout. Itís important to understand that gravity feed likes low friction/back pressure so minimising restriction and using sloping bends rather than 90 elbows helps alot.

    Thank you so much, what do you mean about the 18k? Do you mean that should be my pump size?

  13. #29
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinghamkoi View Post
    Thank you so much, what do you mean about the 18k? Do you mean that should be my pump size?
    I donít have a water pump. The entire pond runs on air with airlifts

    The maximum flow rate with gravity pushing water through is ~18,000lph through a 4Ē pipe. You can get more if itís efficient and low in restrictions to flow rate.
    I have two 110mm pipes. In theory i could get about 42,000lph but i run each at ~11,000lph each (so about 22,000lph total). However I donít want to confuse things further.

    For your system, just remember water in water out. So if you want 18,000lph you will need to put 18000lph back into the pond. So a 30,000lph variable pump running at ~18,000 will be needed. Note that running my old 20,000 lph variable pump was about 190Watts at full 20,000lph.

    Just remember to design enough space in the pond so that thay the pond can develop enough pressure to push the water into the filter at 18,000lph. The precise depth difference required todo that depends on the area of the pond. In short it can be calculated but most people simply design it without thinking about calculating it

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  15. #30
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    I would say there is two ways to keep the bottom drain clean - purge and (what i will refer to as) plough.

    If you use purge you will need a separate drain ball valve into the drain at the lowest point to get the maximum force to flush.

    The other alternative is to have a bending t junction and a rising standing pipe so that you can feed either a hose pipe or a flexible metal drain rod down (this really needs sloping bends all the way to the bottom drain). The hose allow uses water to loosen/agitate and the allows the waste to then be removed via the normal filter.

  16. #31
    Thank you, I'm going to look into this air lift business. I've always thought it needed a pump

  17. #32
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinghamkoi View Post
    Thank you, I'm going to look into this air lift business. I've always thought it needed a pump
    https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-constru...tem-using.html

    In the later posts iíve put together the maths for working out water and air flow rates.
    Eco Pond: 13,000 litres, 20K+ lph Airlifts, 1300l anoxic, Solum 16. No pump. 58W total.

  18. #33
    I'll give it a look over thanks, I've already started looking into it but there's a question straight off the bat, does it sit in the pond just above the bd or is it meant to be in a separate chamber?

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  20. #34
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinghamkoi View Post
    I'll give it a look over thanks, I've already started looking into it but there's a question straight off the bat, does it sit in the pond just above the bd or is it meant to be in a separate chamber?
    You can do that a number of ways, including outside the pond with a U bend (you could do that in the pond too). You donít need a separate chamber although that can work too.

    Have an read here too: https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-diy-tips-tricks-diy-projects/31141-diy-air-lift.html

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  22. #35
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    20221025_112615.jpg

    I did an air uplift not long ago with the help of a few guys on here useing the "U" bend version easy and cheap to do.
    See of this diagram helps,it is outside the pond.
    John

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  24. #36
    as an imperialist I should point out that 11000 litres is only 2420 gallons

  25. #37
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deejaysmi View Post
    as an imperialist I should point out that 11000 litres is only 2420 gallons
    Most vendors support the boston tea party.. and use US gallons
    Eco Pond: 13,000 litres, 20K+ lph Airlifts, 1300l anoxic, Solum 16. No pump. 58W total.

 

 
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