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  1. #41
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Re Dave's post... I've had issues before money is even mentioned!

    For example I had two draftsmen/architects (not sure on exact title) come to my house to do some drawings for a loft conversion. I gave both a summary of the job before hand to manage expectations, so they knew it's not a grand designs job.

    They both still turn up, both chat for two hours +, make all the right noises, say they'll contact me with a quote and then I hear nothing, despite chasing.

    If the job was too small (and they already knew roughly what was involved) why bother turn up? Just reply and say sorry we're too busy at the moment to deal with the enquiry?

    And I've learnt that going for the cheapest quote can often backfire on you. So tend to go for middle price, well reviewed people. But even that still doesn't dodge poor practice or customer service.

    For example I got 3 quotes to tile a bathroom. One was 400, one was 700 and the other 1600.

    How one quote can be quadruple another I don't know. Anyway, I go for the middle one, to avoid getting peanuts. He turns up 4 days in a row. In that time he laid 4 tiles and drew some pencil marks on the wall. After that I told him to not bother returning.

    Turns out he was leaving about 10minutes after I left the house for work.

    Another time I got another bathroom tiled and asked for a kitchen tile to be replaced to be included in the quote. Again I shop around, don't hear anything back from 90% of the people I contact, eventually get a few quotes, go for a reasonable price, not cheapest. The guy was really nice did a good job on the bathroom but as expected, f@#ks off without replacing the kitchen tile.

    Another example. I got the garden redone. Decided halfway through that I wanted edging blocks. I asked how much, if it's not to late to add them. I was told no problem, it'll be 500 extra. I said that was fine, go ahead. When the bill came it had increased to 1000. When I challenged him he said that 500 would not even cover their costs - but that was the price I was told? Why say 500 if that's not the price? And they were a really decent company, not the cheapest, good reviews and, that aside, I was happy with.

    I can go on with more tails and tribulations but you've probably glazed over by now lol.

    From my experience, id say most of the time it's either poor communication or a desire to smash out a job as quickly as possible and move on to the next one that is the root of most problems.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

    this is part of the issue...
    there is a wide gulf between professional tradesmen, working in professional companies.
    doing professional, commercial, and domestic work.

    and the vast multitude of domestic trademen doing work in ordinary working class houses.
    and how low quality, cheap labour, has ruined domestic work for the few that used to do a good job.

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  3. #42
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    this is part of the issue...
    there is a wide gulf between professional tradesmen, working in professional companies.
    doing professional, commercial, and domestic work.

    and the vast multitude of domestic trademen doing work in ordinary working class houses.
    and how low quality, cheap labour, has ruined domestic work for the few that used to do a good job.
    I had a beauty a few weeks ago when I went to sort out why a customer's light wasn't working. It was wired from a socket in under sized flex to a fused spur which they told me was a socket and then out to the light. I told them it had been bodged and needed rewiring from the socket to the light via a spur but they didn't want the tiles removed or a surface trunking fitted. I explained to them that there was no way it could be done and showed them the burnt out cable in the socket feeding the spur and that if I didn't remove it and make it safe it could have burnt there kitchen or house down and instead of thanking me for saving them having a potential fire theytried to refuse to pay me because I didn't get the light working. They had also bought a cheap light fitting and kicked off because the labour for fitting it was more than the price of the light!!! It wasn't my fault they had bought a cheap light and there was no way they were going to dictate how much I could charge per hour going by the cost of what the light fitting was worth!!!
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  5. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    this is part of the issue...
    there is a wide gulf between professional tradesmen, working in professional companies.
    doing professional, commercial, and domestic work.

    and the vast multitude of domestic trademen doing work in ordinary working class houses.
    and how low quality, cheap labour, has ruined domestic work for the few that used to do a good job.
    Yes Dave has hit the nail on the head Filter and Pipework contractor needed I am NICEIC Approved contractor and Gas safe as a company Chas and safe contractor accredited as a company but i get phone calls every day from some who has a problem with their electrics and I state its 65 quid for the first hour and then 45 for every hour there after and they tell me they are not paying that Filter and Pipework contractor needed but ring a drainage company and tell them you have a blocked drain you will pay doubke that to get it unblocked. But does that guy go to College for 3 years to learn how to block a drain with a jet wash.

    That's why good companies don't bother with retail customers I am afraid because the influx of Eastern European workers killed the market. And that's why people get the problem if people not turning up as they are chasing the bigger bucks

    Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk

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  7. #44
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    I had a beauty a few weeks ago when I went to sort out why a customer's light wasn't working. It was wired from a socket in under sized flex to a fused spur which they told me was a socket and then out to the light. I told them it had been bodged and needed rewiring from the socket to the light via a spur but they didn't want the tiles removed or a surface trunking fitted. I explained to them that there was no way it could be done and showed them the burnt out cable in the socket feeding the spur and that if I didn't remove it and make it safe it could have burnt there kitchen or house down and instead of thanking me for saving them having a potential fire theytried to refuse to pay me because I didn't get the light working. They had also bought a cheap light fitting and kicked off because the labour for fitting it was more than the price of the light!!! It wasn't my fault they had bought a cheap light and there was no way they were going to dictate how much I could charge per hour going by the cost of what the light fitting was worth!!!
    this is the domestic market problem,
    all the 18th regs in the world won't stop people paying some random bloke,
    they heard of from a mate of someone down the pub,
    to wire a new 10kw shower in, from the cooker socket downstairs, surface clipped in 6mm T&E

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  9. #45
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    We are at present trying also rectify a pond that was built by a builder
    Good builder but without any experience of pond building.

    Doesn't help that we have a customer that won't listen either
    We've tried and tried and tried to get him to see sense but won't have it.
    7000 gallon pond with 2 X 8000 gph pumps.
    2 X oase drum bio XXL, each being fed with 3 X 4 inch pipes returning through 1.5 inch pipe. You can't put 8000 gph through a 1.5 inch pipe
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  11. #46
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colincolin View Post
    Yes Dave has hit the nail on the head Filter and Pipework contractor needed I am NICEIC Approved contractor and Gas safe as a company Chas and safe contractor accredited as a company but i get phone calls every day from some who has a problem with their electrics and I state its 65 quid for the first hour and then 45 for every hour there after and they tell me they are not paying that Filter and Pipework contractor needed but ring a drainage company and tell them you have a blocked drain you will pay doubke that to get it unblocked. But does that guy go to College for 3 years to learn how to block a drain with a jet wash.

    That's why good companies don't bother with retail customers I am afraid because the influx of Eastern European workers killed the market. And that's why people get the problem if people not turning up as they are chasing the bigger bucks

    Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk
    the company i subcontracted for would only do domestic work for selected clients.
    usually friends, relatives or clients of large contracts.

    90% of our work was commercial, military, or government contracts.
    new hospitals, schools, football stadiums, warehousing, office blocks, prisons, and MOD work.
    Last edited by davethefish1; 13-05-2022 at 09:31 PM.

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  13. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1671 View Post
    We are at present trying also rectify a pond that was built by a builder
    Good builder but without any experience of pond building.

    Doesn't help that we have a customer that won't listen either
    We've tried and tried and tried to get him to see sense but won't have it.
    7000 gallon pond with 2 X 8000 gph pumps.
    2 X oase drum bio XXL, each being fed with 3 X 4 inch pipes returning through 1.5 inch pipe. You can't put 8000 gph through a 1.5 inch pipe
    i wouldn't try to help them, i'd have just walked away from it.
    as regardless how much you help them, they are not going to be satisfied with the outcome because they have lost money.

    you end up paying for someone elses mistakes...

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  15. #48
    Yes Dave I now only work for County Council and local Councils shame really because we could provide a good service to retail we did join Checkatrade and passed the interview the phone rung off the hook the first 2 weeks but if you don't get reviews in from customers you end up on page 3 so if someone searches for an electrician in your postcode and is new to check a trade but is 3 hours away they come up first lol its all a con

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  17. #49
    Always go on recommendation and I don't charge a penny until the job is complete and the customer is happy.all good companies can work like this if they are good. As most reputable companies are on 30 day terms

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  19. #50
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    A lot of my work is recommendations and I invoice once the job's done
    ________________________________________________
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    All we ever got was cold,
    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
    Squash every week into a day.

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  21. #51
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colincolin View Post
    Always go on recommendation and I don't charge a penny until the job is complete and the customer is happy.all good companies can work like this if they are good. As most reputable companies are on 30 day terms
    true,
    but the vast majority of people don't want to pay reputable company prices.... with office overheads and directors to pay...
    a bunch of neighbours in our area have used a local company (3 men and a van) to do a full replacment of fascias.

    i laughed my arse off when i saw them ripping the old solid redwood facias off, with all the tile profiles attached.
    and putting new foam fascias up with no over fascia vents no soffit vents, no eaves support boards, and no bird guard profile.
    i tried to explaining to the neighbours they weren't doing a proper professional job, but was told basically to butt out...
    that neighbour has about 30 starlings flying in and out of the gaps in the tile profile, and nesting in his roof now!
    Last edited by davethefish1; 13-05-2022 at 11:10 PM.

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  23. #52
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    i wouldn't try to help them, i'd have just walked away from it.
    as regardless how much you help them, they are not going to be satisfied with the outcome because they have lost money.

    you end up paying for someone elses mistakes...
    He wants these Oase 36000 lph pumps on his pond.....so that he can control them from his phone......why

    I can't remember the last time I adjusted the speed on my pumps.....let a lone when I'm out having a meal....I must just tinker with my pumps before dessert turns up
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  25. #53
    World gone tech crazy

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  27. #54
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1671 View Post
    He wants these Oase 36000 lph pumps on his pond.....so that he can control them from his phone......why

    I can't remember the last time I adjusted the speed on my pumps.....let a lone when I'm out having a meal....I must just tinker with my pumps before dessert turns up
    That'll be fun until the pump stops running and its the wifi thats broken...

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  29. #55
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colincolin View Post
    Yes I think if most of our wives run off with a Plumber we would not have a breakdown. So I think you are right

    Sent from my SM-F926B using Tapatalk
    I wished mine would as we cant get a fecking plumber (or any tradesman) for any trade or any price! Cant even get a quote. Sure there are reputable hard working tradesman out there, just that they must be very good at hiding, not answering the phone, not answering emails, or texts.
    Fibreglassed/5350 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  31. #56
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    Dunno how far he travels, but koi-r-us in Hythe Kent don't seem to muck about and turn out nice ponds. Might be worth a call or a Facebook msg.
    Kikusui, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, Sanke, Yotsujiro, Doitsu Aka Bekko, Purachina & Mukashi Ogon.

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  33. #57
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    I wished mine would as we cant get a fecking plumber (or any tradesman) for any trade or any price! Cant even get a quote. Sure there are reputable hard working tradesman out there, just that they must be very good at hiding, not answering the phone, not answering emails, or texts.
    because of the society we live in now, with a large number of people looking to ripoff, scam, and exploit honest working people.
    a lot of the guys i know who still do domestic work, only take new jobs on from recommendations from people they have done work for, or know of.
    or they have gotten out of the game entirely, because of losing money to non payers.

    one lad, Will, has an old nokia PAYG mobile phone number at home on charge 24/7 on silent. it is never answered or checked.
    it's just there to divert people away from his business that don't know him.
    his van used to be all signwritten up with his company name, but now is just plain white...
    and he's still always booked up 3 months in advance...
    Last edited by davethefish1; 14-05-2022 at 11:09 AM.

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  35. #58
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    because of the society we live in now, with a large number of people looking to ripoff, scam, and exploit honest working people.
    a lot of the guys i know who still do domestic work, only take new jobs on from recommendations from people they have done work for, or know of.
    or they have gotten out of the game entirely, because of losing money to non payers.

    one lad, Will, has an old nokia PAYG mobile phone number at home on charge 24/7 on silent. it is never answered or checked.
    it's just there to divert people away from his business that don't know him.
    his van used to be all signwritten up with his company name, but now is just plain white...
    and he's still always booked up 3 months in advance...
    When I finally retire from Iraq im training as a plumber, how hard can it be! I can get my bathroom leak sorted then
    Fibreglassed/5350 gals/4.5 m Tunnel/Spindrifter/Twin drums/Bio chambers/Beads/Showers/Remora ASHP

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  37. #59
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    When I finally retire from Iraq im training as a plumber, how hard can it be! I can get my bathroom leak sorted then
    a plumber...easy... 6 week course, and buy a van
    a pipefitter... 4 year apprenticeship 1 year improvership, 1 year advanced pipefitting, then you spend the next 30 years learning the trade

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  39. #60
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    a plumber...easy... 6 week course, and buy a van
    a pipefitter... 4 year apprenticeship 1 year improvership, 1 year advanced pipefitting, then you spend the next 30 years learning the trade
    The advanced course! That's where they teach you to make that sucking through your teeth sound and then you say something like - well it's not just the fibre washer, it's the flanged wing nut assembly manifold adjustment technical do-hicky that's faulty too which is a 2 week delivery and costs 10k but if you make me a coffee and cake I'll call it a grand for cash
    ________________________________________________
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    All we ever got was cold,
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    Squash every week into a day.

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