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Thread: Sunshine

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    Sunshine

    The planned position for my new pond gets virtually zero direct sunshine on it during the winter months and as I'm not going to be heating the pond I was wondering if it's still a good idea to have it in that location?

    The bio-filtration system will be an anoxic pond and my plan is to only turn it off from say midnight - 7am during the winter so there will be flow a lot of the time to help reduce any ice.

    Anyone got any thoughts?



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Why are you turning it off mate ??

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    My thought was just to save money on pump running costs bud.. probably just turn it down and use underwater returns instead of waterfall outlets from anoxic chamber... that would solve any noise issues as well. It's all still in design stage lol

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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    My pond is mostly shaded in winter too - as it's fairly close to a fence that runs east west. My pond water generally seems to be a few degrees cooler than others on here going by the daily temp thread. It's only 4C at the mo.

    If I had a bigger garden,. I definitely would put it in a better spot that gets more sun.

    So I'd say if you can, move it to somewhere that gets more sun. After all, the extent of growth of the koi is greatly affected by the warmth of the water, so you might as well get as much free heat in the pond i.e. solar gain, as you can.

    In terms of running costs. Have you thought about using an airlift pump instead of conventional water pump?

    I've put up a thread about using an airlift on my pond and others on here (Nickk-uk and UKzero) have built ponds with air lifts too and I think we're all in agreement it's a great way to pump water in a gravity system for very little cost/electricity.

    Ps you should have your filters running 24/7.

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    Last edited by Twhitenosugar; 26-01-2022 at 05:57 PM.
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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    Hi Twhitenosugar, yes, the solar gain was what I was thinking about but more for icing up issues rather than feeding/growth. I wouldn't be feeding much in the winter anyway. Like yours, the fence that it would be close to runs east to west.. it gets plenty of sun in the summer but the low winter sun doesn't make it over the fence until halfway across the garden.

    I have got the space to move it but I had it positioned outside my lounge patio doors so I could see it all the time. If I moved it to the other side of the garden, which only gets partial sun anyway, the only time I'd really see it is if I was outside.

    Growth rates aren't really important to me tbh. I'm happy to let them grow at their own pace.

    I've seen the posts about airlifts, and looked into them a bit, but the pond is going to be at ground level so it'd be difficult to do.

    Noted about the advice to keep filters on 24/7/365 but can I ask why I'd need them in the winter when fish are inactive and the water clear, with the fish not being fed much if at all so very little bio waste?

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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    If that's the best place then i don't think it's a deal breaker if it will be a bit colder.

    I generally think the warmer you can keep the pond, the better. Not just for growth but also the health of the fish. So even as it starts warming up, as your pond is that bit cooler it'll take longer to heat up.

    The upside is that it should reduce issues with algae so there is an upside too.

    I'm not sure my pond has ever exceeded 19c temps, when others seem to no problem in mid summer. So whilst I don't expect the fish to get huge, I still would like them to grow big If possible and feel the lack of sun holds them back.

    I'd also suggest insulating the pond well. You seem to be an expert on this so won't preach to the converted. But even if you are not bothered about them getting big now, that may change Sunshine I went for 12mm pu boards, but wish I went thicker now, if anything just to keep the temps stable.

    In terms of the pond being ground level, that is not an issue. All you need to do is dig out a section next to the pond that can accommodate a tank to sit the air lift in. Or dig out a hole next to the pond that can accommodate a u bend of 110mm or 4" pipe that is 2m long/deep and it'll work no problem.



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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    In terms of the filters, the fish will still produce ammonia, just in lower quantities.

    Also, if you turn any bio filters off, there's a good chance you'll kill off the bacteria or at least knock it back. So it's best just to leave it all running.

    Trust me, you'll have enough issues with new pond syndromes, parasites, algae blooms etc with a new pond. Switching filters off in winter can only add to your woes Sunshine

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    Last edited by Twhitenosugar; 26-01-2022 at 05:59 PM.
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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    Hi mate. I was also thinking that although not ideal, it shouldn't make a huge difference. I've had to move it 1.5m away from the patio already because of an underground rainwater drain pipe but moving it to the other side of the garden might have been a step too far for me, making it not worthwhile.

    I would like the fish to get as big as possible, and will feed them to that end.. just without heating the pond.

    Interesting about the insulation; I've still got to decide whether to insulate it or not. About 1m below ground the soil temperature is quite stable, and rarely falls below 6°C, so if I don't insulate it I can take some of that heat to help water temps in winter. If I insulated it I won't be able to use that heat.. more pondering on that one needed I think.

    With regards to turning the filtration off overnight.. would the bacteria die off over a 7 hour period? I understand bacteria lives in the baskets and converts the ammonia but I thought bioscenosis is more of a chemical reaction rather than bio? Or is it important for both to happen?

    Still got more research to do re: airlifts.

    Thanks for your help bud

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    Hi mate. I was also thinking that although not ideal, it shouldn't make a huge difference. I've had to move it 1.5m away from the patio already because of an underground rainwater drain pipe but moving it to the other side of the garden might have been a step too far for me, making it not worthwhile. I would like the fish to get as big as possible, and will feed them to that end.. just without heating the pond.

    Interesting about the insulation; I've still got to decide whether to insulate it or not. About 1m below ground the soil temperature is quite stable, and rarely falls below 6°C, so if I don't insulate it I can take some of that heat to help water temps in winter. If I insulated it I won't be able to use that heat.. more pondering on that one needed I think.

    With regards to turning the filtration off overnight.. would the bacteria die off over a 7 hour period? I understand bacteria lives in the baskets and converts the ammonia but I thought bioscenosis is more of a chemical reaction rather than bio? Or is it important for both to happen?

    Still got more research to do re: airlifts.

    Thanks for your help bud

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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Tbh I'm no expert so probably not the best to answer your points.

    But fwiw, I think insulating the pond is probably better than not doing so.

    It should help reduce swings in temp. And in the summer when the water heats up, you don't want to be losing heat in the pond by heating the ground around it (although I appreciate the counter argument is the earth/concrete blocks can act as a storage heater).

    I suppose it's more finely balanced for an unheated, in ground pond than a raised pond (which is what I have).

    But, if you do insulate the pond, you'll still have your bottom drain and a few meters of pipework gaining some heat from the ambient ground temp in winter.

    Plus if you ever changed your mind about heating, you will have screwed yourself over by not putting insulation in when you had the chance.

    There was a thread on here a while back where 'to insulate or not' was discussed quite a bit. It's worth searching for for the varying opinions.

    In terms of the anoxic baskets, probably best to direct your question at Mankey Sankey.

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  16. #11
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    All good info mate.. it all goes into the brain blender so eventually, hopefully, the final solution is what will suit me best

 

 

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