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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Sansai Mannh85's Avatar
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    Folds in liner, big deal or not?

    Hi folks,

    After fitting my box welded liner it looks like I will have a fold along the sides of the pond which I cant pull out due to the shape of the pond. The bottom is nice and flat and wrinkle free. Obviously I would rather the fold wasn't there, but how much of a big deal is this going to be? I've read they can be a harbourer of bad bacteria which concerns me, this sounds logical but is it scare mongering by those lucky enough to have fibre-glass ponds? Would the water pressure alone not push the fold flat and prevent water getting between the fold anyway?

    My other option is to stick the fold closed with butyl tape but doing this is going to restrict the flexibility of the liner when I begin to fill it, and if I don't get every gap sealed then water will get between the fold anyway with even less chance of getting out!

    Would like to get peoples thoughts on the matter



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai harryc's Avatar
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    Depends on the size of the fold if you are thinking of sticking butyl tape can’t you lower the water and try and get rid of the fold.

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  4. #3
    Member Rank = Sansai Mannh85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryc View Post
    Depends on the size of the fold if you are thinking of sticking butyl tape can’t you lower the water and try and get rid of the fold.
    Hi Harry, the folds are about 3m long on both sides which run parallel to the bottom, the fold itself is about 2"-3" so just enough to get a strip of 50mm butyl tape between.The pond is currently empty of water but because of the shape of the pond (it tapers slightly in towards the bottom) I can't pull the fold out without affecting the corners and making them come away from where they need to be!

  5. #4
    Member Rank = Sansai Mannh85's Avatar
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    Here's some images to give a better idea. The fold isn't as low as in the images, it sits about 4"-6" off the bottom.

    8842B323-CCFE-4BAA-A751-3171FA58CE91.jpg9FA52EBA-2666-437B-A63C-BD92525C0D45.jpg

  6. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Oooo that is a bugger, it does look like the whole thing needs lifting as you say... can you use tape so the flap touches the bottom then seal the sides to the bottom with a very wide band of marine sealant ??

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  8. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Definitely a big deal mate the crap that will hold under there will house allsorts of nasties and also big build ups of crap will have a unpredictable effect on treatments like pp and fluke stuff making your calculations for ml of treatment completely wrong and will have to add more and more to get the same results I belive . All that can be done giving the returns are in is as dbs said and seal with tape and ha6 or the likes

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  10. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    i had to do small folds in my box weld liner as they made it an inch too long,
    if i'd have known i'd have dug it an inch deeper...

    i had to part fill about a foot deep, to fold the creases down into the bottom edges.
    i wouldn't bother with butyl tape it's rubbish, i used it on my last pond an oval with big creases, it all fell off...
    if you can stick the folds together with ms polymer sealant, its the best thing to stick to rubber liners...

    with hindsight i should have pulled the bottom taught and cut the top of the liner's corners to pull the sides up,
    but like you i had already cut for the pipes ect...

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  12. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KevT's Avatar
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    Hi

    I would suggest that you will need to remove those inlets and then fill the bottom of the pond with a foot of water and then pull the liner tight. I had to get in the pond with socks on and it's bloody cold even in the summer. Then see if you can add patches to the area over the holes and re-inserted the returns or move the returns up the wall to match the holes already in the liner. Pond liner repairs are usually very easy with a good quality sealant. A big faff, but will be worth is as the muck will definitely get trapped under those areas and be a nightmare to keep clean in the long run

    Good luck

    KevT
    Last edited by KevT; 06-09-2021 at 08:53 PM.

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  14. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nisai harryc's Avatar
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    I would be inclined to follow KevT if you are brave enough lol.

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  16. #10
    Member Rank = Sansai Mannh85's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, I appreciate all your views on this!

    So I had a little pull around with the liner last night and I think my best approach is to make a neat pleat about 8" from the bottom and using a sealer to seal it shut - luckily I have 10 tubes of MS290 leftover from fitting the window!

    I don't think I have the stomach to cut the liner off the returns now and my window is also stuck the other end of the pond, there is only a few inches of play in the liner so the holes for the returns won't be patch-able because they'll only sit a few inches higher then where they need to be and I can't move my returns as they're all buried!


    A note for anyone thinking about getting a box welded liner: as great as they are and better fitting than just a normal flat liner, they are still man made and have a certain level of discrepancy, something I didn't really think about or account for when measuring up and fitting.

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  18. #11
    I don't understand the thinking behind trying to seal folds with sealant - I would have thought you're very unlikely to completely seal the cavity and that would leave you with the worst of all worlds, i.e. cavities that hold lots of stagnant water that's impossible to clear out.

    If moving or changing the liner isn't an option I would just leave it as it is and invest in a pond vac.

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  20. #12
    Member Rank = Sansai Mannh85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodberry View Post
    I don't understand the thinking behind trying to seal folds with sealant - I would have thought you're very unlikely to completely seal the cavity and that would leave you with the worst of all worlds, i.e. cavities that hold lots of stagnant water that's impossible to clear out.

    If moving or changing the liner isn't an option I would just leave it as it is and invest in a pond vac.
    Yes completely agree with you, if I don't get it 100% sealed I might just make the situation even worse! The fold would 'only' be about 1"-2" deep so it should be doable in theory, but coming to do it in reality with sealing and holding it in place I know its going to be a right pain in the...

    I might stick it in position tonight with some removable tape and re-access the situation, leaving it and vacuuming it out would be the last option.

    If I had to leave it and use a vac, I would assume the best position would be for the fold to face upwards, not good for catching all the falling crap but a lot easier to run the vacuum nozzle across it to clean it out?

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  22. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Big nige's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodberry View Post
    I don't understand the thinking behind trying to seal folds with sealant - I would have thought you're very unlikely to completely seal the cavity and that would leave you with the worst of all worlds, i.e. cavities that hold lots of stagnant water that's impossible to clear out.

    If moving or changing the liner isn't an option I would just leave it as it is and invest in a pond vac.
    Absolutely, I have folds in my liner and just vacuum them with the crevice attachment during weekly water change,

    Sent from my moto e6 play using Tapatalk

 

 

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