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  1. #1

    Pumps and returns?

    I know there’s probably a very obvious answer to this but if I went for say a 10,000 lph veripump it comes with 1.5” in n out so what am I gaining by then running to a 3 or 4” return back to the pond? Surely the fitting size on the pump dictates the water flow?
    similarly everyone seems to want a skimmer with a 4 “ pipe but then runs it to a pump with 1.5” or 2” fittings, am I missing something?


    Last edited by Paul burt; 02-03-2021 at 09:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Moving to a larger pipe after the pump will decrease pressure and therefore flow. You are right, you need to stick to what the manufacturer suggests. 1.5 in your case, bigger pumps will want 2".
    On the gravity side the bigger the better. In theory, but most ponds require a similar ish amount to be returned back to the pond. People have found that 4" gravity provides the best balance of water flowing through it for most of our applications. That balance of water being returned to the pond versus what is being pulled through the gravity drains is what matters.

    In summary
    Too small a drain and it restricts what can come through it and your pump might empty your filter faster than gravity can replace it.
    Too big a drain and it will pull plenty of water through but that will limit its pace.
    Get it right and the bottom drain will work better to actively pull the water, and crap, out the pond as a happy byproduct
    Last edited by Alburglar; 02-03-2021 at 01:31 PM.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

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    Senior Member Rank = Sansai KevT's Avatar
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    Hi Paul

    The other thing to remember is, if like me you pump to a shower and return mid water via gravity you need bigger pipes I have approx 7k of water pumped to the top of my shower and 2 x 3 inch returns the pump is 10k variable and it overflowed until I reduced it to approx 7k gravity return mid water

    KevT

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    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Jampot's Avatar
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    If you can bare the extra up front cost, a 20k varipump running at 50% on 2" pipework is unlikely to use any more juice than a 10k flat out on 1.5" pipe and has the scope to up the flow if required.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jampot View Post
    If you can bare the extra up front cost, a 20k varipump running at 50% on 2" pipework is unlikely to use any more juice than a 10k flat out on 1.5" pipe and has the scope to up the flow if required.

    Jim
    The jebao is only about 35 40 notes more for the 22000. Save on running costs and sorted if ever wanna extend pond or run a shower

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    Johnathan

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  10. #6
    Thanks lads,
    next question is, I’m planning running my bd through a multibay and then pumped through some sort of baki shower and back into the pond via a return chamber plus I’m also installing a skimmer that needs some filtration, not sure on the best setup for this yet but with the blockwork going up this weekend or I’m at least starting it I need to sort the inlets so I can build them in and then worry about the filter setup afterwards, so what’s ideal in terms of mid water inlets in size and height in the pond wall, ie is two 3” better than one 4”?

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Mid water Inlets? As in side drains? Or returns?
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

  12. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    Mid water Inlets? As in side drains? Or returns?
    returns mate

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Alburglar's Avatar
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    You probably don't want 3" or 4 " returns.
    More likely multiples of 2" or 1.5"
    Is your pond going to be gravity fed or pump fed?
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

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  15. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    You probably don't want 3" or 4 " returns.
    More likely multiples of 2" or 1.5"
    Is your pond going to be gravity fed or pump fed?
    Gravity fed from bd to a multi bay then pumped back to pond, Iím also using a skimmer, at the mo plan is separate pump to a baki shower then back to the pond but I havenít given it a great deal of thought as been concentrating on the construction side of things.
    as far as filtration is concerned all Iíve done is, install the bd and run pipe out of the pond ready to go into the garage and bought a nitro tech filter setup that I havenít picked up yet, im building the last of the block work next Friday/Saturday so I really need to sort the skimmer and inlets so I can build them in rather than core drill 6Ē blocks afterwards, blocked up 600mm below finish so perhaps the ideal height to run the inlets through, basically Iím going to put the pipes in the wall as it goes up to connect up to later, Iím fibreglasing so donít need any fancy inlet plates, just need to make sure Iím using the right size.
    as I understand it these baki showers need a lot of water going through them to make em work so that volume of water has to return to the pond unhindered.

  16. #11
    Should add that everything will be housed inside the garage with no pipe work at all above pond level, it can drop very cold here in winter so hopefully I’ll have no problems with anything freezing while I’m away at work, I am considering an inlet chamber for both filter and baki shower to run into then a 4” return to the pond, what you think?
    as I work away in the week I’m going to try and build a system that should there be any problems, power cut, pump failure etc, the water just sits level in the system rather than flooding the garage
    Last edited by Paul burt; 07-03-2021 at 03:06 AM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Ah so, gravity to filter bay, then pumping up to bakki shower in garage and effectively a gravity return back to a seperate chamber? Or straight back to the pond, hence the 4" return?
    Either way you'd want possibly want something bigger or 2 x 4" so it doesn't restrict the flow over the showers like you suggest.
    Most people have the shower spilling through an open trough back into the pond, so its hard to know precisely what you'd need.
    There is a bloke with a you tube channel Rasta Koi, who also has a koi forum. He has a huge remote shower in a garage. It might be worth asking him what he's done, or watch some of his vids and see if you can fathom it.

    https://youtu.be/VQ2NJt6VUuo
    Last edited by Alburglar; 07-03-2021 at 09:48 PM.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

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  19. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    Ah so, gravity to filter bay, then pumping up to bakki shower in garage and effectively a gravity return back to a seperate chamber? Or straight back to the pond, hence the 4" return?
    Either way you'd want possibly want something bigger or 2 x 4" so it doesn't restrict the flow over the showers like you suggest.
    Most people have the shower spilling through an open trough back into the pond, so its hard to know precisely what you'd need.
    There is a bloke with a you tube channel Rasta Koi, who also has a koi forum. He has a huge remote shower in a garage. It might be worth asking him what he's done, or watch some of his vids and see if you can fathom it.

    https://youtu.be/VQ2NJt6VUuo
    @john1 . Runs a shower in a garage and a 4 inch return maybe pm him

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