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Thread: Cetus sieve

  1. #1

    Cetus sieve

    Can anyone help me, have inherited a 4200g approx koi pond. It is below ground and has pump to UV then to nexus then back into pond via a waterfall. Pipework is i think 1 1/2 or 2 inches not sure. I have a cetus sieve and want to connect it up but don't understand the instructions. It talks about 4 inch pipe but where is from, going to ect. I am a complete novice and am looking for genuine help and advice and not to be spoken down too like i have on other sites. Not everybody was born experienced.
    Instructions also show a pump, do i need one or does gravity do it.
    I need idiot proof help until i can learn more.
    Any useful help would be greatly appreciated. I am also going to buy and air source heat pump for next year. Will learn about that later



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  3. #2
    Welcome to the forum, you’ve come to the right place as everyone is pretty friendly on here.
    It’s a bit tricky to set this up in a pump fed scenario as you have install another pump and a balance pipe.
    There will be someone along shortly who’s done it I expect and they’ll say it’s easy lol
    You basically install another circuit within your existing circuit that pumps over the sieve, the balance pipe stopes everything from overflowing.


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  4. #3
    Would you consider swapping to a gravity fee system, I.e. pump out of the filter not into it? Be a lot easier in the long run and give better results although this does assume you have a bottom drain so don’t need to pump above water level to get the water out of the pond.

  5. #4
    Hi, don' have a bottom drain unfortunately

  6. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai KevT's Avatar
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    Hi Agnes

    Looks like you are going to get into this koi keeping lark with a heat pump ect,, the thing is you really do need to get the filtration right and to be fair we are all water keepers and the fish look after themselves. You probably won't want to hear this, but take it from my experience the only real solution in a koi pond with large fish is a bottom drain - gravity fed system. Koi make a lot of waste and the pump chops the waste and this makes catching it more difficult. The sieve will work far better if gravity fed and the pump will be pumping clean water which means it will last longer and you can use a smaller wattage pump as it's not having to lift water only move it - costs less to run too. The sieve will give you great mechanical filtration, but you still have to have bio filtration either moving bed or a shower, Good luck and enjoy your new found hobby

    KevT
    Last edited by KevT; 25-02-2021 at 11:01 PM.

  7. #6
    As i said i don't have a bottom drain, obviously one wasn't put in when built. All i want is how to install sieve with the system i have which is pump in pond to Uv to nexus and back to pond via waterfall.

  8. #7
    I’m guessing that you could pump from pond to uv the drop into sieve, gravity to nexus then gravity back to pond?

  9. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Draco retro bd quick and simple

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    Johnathan

  10. #9
    Tried that but doesn't seem to work. Guess I'm not doing it properly

  11. #10
    What goes wrong? Might be good to add a couple of pictures too

  12. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Are you trying to run the bd pipe over the pond wall?

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    Johnathan

  13. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    A picture is worth a thousand words!

    Your system is pump fed rather than gravity fed, in short and simple:

    Pump fed: POND -> PUMP -> FILTER -> POND
    Gravity fed: POND -> FILTER -> PUMP -> POND.

    The pump fed forces the water through the filter and then it flows under its own steam back to the pond. The key here is that the pump is forcing, water is then flowing based on that pressure or the back pressure of water built up to push through filter material.
    The gravity fed works by the pump forcing the water out of the filter into the pond, then the water in the pond moves under its own steam (gravity) to fill the space in filter.

    The difference is simply a pump macerates the waste before the filter and can be done with smaller pipes, a gravity doesn't break up waste so makes it simpler to filter but needs large diameter pipes to get the required flow rate (hence the talk of 4" or 110mm piping).

    A sieve is designed for either pump feed or gravity-feed.

    It is possible to retrofit a gravity-fed sieve into a pump fed system but it gets a little complicated:
    * A pump needs to feed the sieve and a water sensor is needed not to over fill in the case of a blockage or the outflow of the filter lags the inflow.
    * a second pump is then needed to empty the sieve and force the water through the rest of the pump-fed filter.

    Using a retro-BD with a pump means you're then pumping into the sieve, then pumping out of the sieve as above.

    The obvious cost is the electricity for the two pumps.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    A picture is worth a thousand words!

    Your system is pump fed rather than gravity fed, in short and simple:

    Pump fed: POND -> PUMP -> FILTER -> POND
    Gravity fed: POND -> FILTER -> PUMP -> POND.

    The pump fed forces the water through the filter and then it flows under its own steam back to the pond. The key here is that the pump is forcing, water is then flowing based on that pressure or the back pressure of water built up to push through filter material.
    The gravity fed works by the pump forcing the water out of the filter into the pond, then the water in the pond moves under its own steam (gravity) to fill the space in filter.

    The difference is simply a pump macerates the waste before the filter and can be done with smaller pipes, a gravity doesn't break up waste so makes it simpler to filter but needs large diameter pipes to get the required flow rate (hence the talk of 4" or 110mm piping).

    A sieve is designed for either pump feed or gravity-feed.

    It is possible to retrofit a gravity-fed sieve into a pump fed system but it gets a little complicated:
    * A pump needs to feed the sieve and a water sensor is needed not to over fill in the case of a blockage or the outflow of the filter lags the inflow.
    * a second pump is then needed to empty the sieve and force the water through the rest of the pump-fed filter.

    Using a retro-BD with a pump means you're then pumping into the sieve, then pumping out of the sieve as above.

    The obvious cost is the electricity for the two pumps.
    The draco bd is 4inch you bring the flexi pipe up and and core drill the pond wall to still have the gravitational pull by not going above the pond water. So you can run the whole system gravity fed and using the 1 pump after filters

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    Johnathan

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  16. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Just found this on cuttlebrook

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    Johnathan

  17. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    The draco bd is 4inch you bring the flexi pipe up and and core drill the pond wall to still have the gravitational pull by not going above the pond water. So you can run the whole system gravity fed and using the 1 pump after filters

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    I think you'd need to consider the pond water level the relationship to the pond filter water level. Perhaps I've missed something but Agnes hasn't indicated this.
    1700 litres on 50 watts
    Planned 11,777 litres on 58 watts. 1300l anoxic, 4" airlifts, Solum 16, bio.

  18. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai KevT's Avatar
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    This video explains a simple retro bottom drain - you could add the sieve once the pipe comes out of the wall where he has a vortex


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQgeExLWdhs

    KevT
    Last edited by KevT; 26-02-2021 at 05:57 PM.

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  20. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    True yes but thought that was giving especially with the set up pictured above and previous gravity talk on the thread

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    Johnathan

  21. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    My sieve is pump fed just not a Cetus but the same principle would apply.

    I've got the pump in the pond which then feeds a UVC then a Multi Cyclone filter and then the sieve. The sieve is mounted about 4ft up off the floor and that then gravity feeds an Eazy Pod which gravity feeds back into the pond about 9" above the pond water surface.

    From memory you can convert the Cetus sieve from gravity to pump fed or the other way round just by swapping the inlet and outlet fittings over.

    So as long as you can mount the sieve high enough to gravity feed the next filter and that's high enough to gravity fed back into your pond you only need one pump if you want to run it pump fed. The 2 pump setup is always going to be an issue trying to balance the system up and also if 1 pump stops there is a chance something will run dry, overflow or both.

    Keep it simple and avoid float switches as that's just something else to go wrong in my opinion.
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  22. #19
    Understand about pipes beng turned around for pump fed sieve. Why is it so high off the ground. Can you post some pictures so i can see how you've set it up.
    I am trying to understand all this but have no experience in this kind of thing and just want to keep the fish alive.

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  24. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    I'll have to try the photo later as for some reason I can't get the attachment onto this reply!

    The sieve is mounted up high because it has to be able to gravity feed to the next filter which also has to be high enough to gravity feed back into the pond. Both the sieve and the Eazy Pod have outlets close to the bottom of them. The inlet on the sieve is close to the bottom of the filter but as that is being pump fed because both the UVC and Multi Cyclone filter are sealed filters that's not a problem to get the sieve to fill up and work. The inlet on the Eazy Pod is half way up the filter so the outlet of the sieve needs to be above that by a few inches so it can be gravity fed by the sieve. As the outlet of the Eazy Pod is lower than the inlet of the Eazy Pod that means the Eazy Pod outlet has to be at least level with the surface of the pond water.

    So as you work back from the pond to the sieve you end up with the sieve being quite high up.

    So as in my set up the outlet of the Eazy Pod is about 9" above the surface of the pond and the inlet of the Eazy Pod is about 12" higher than the outlet of the Eazy Pod then allowing for the outlet of the sieve to give a decent gravity flow to the Eazy Pod I have the outlet of the sieve about 12" above the inlet of the Eazy Pod I think so the bottom of the sieve is about 33" above the surface of the pond. My pond is semi raised so it's out of the ground by about 12" which then puts the bottom of the sieve at about 45" above the ground or floor of the shed.

    OK you could lower that a bit if you have a ground level pond and maybe the sieve could be a bit lower down and still gravity fed the Eazy Pod and still work.
    ________________________________________________
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    Get up, eat jelly, sandwich bars and barbed wire,
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