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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Returns to pond - Is there a science to it

    It is final planning stages for me for my new enlarged pond (which I hope to start before the end of the month (Mini digger timing), and what I am toing and throwing with at the moment is returns and their placement, my current plans include the following (quick overview)
    • Internal pond dimensions 6500 L x 2500 W x 1600 D
    • 2 aeriated bottom drains drains > 4" > Drako Solum 25 > 4" > Drako Large Bio > 2" > EA 20k pump > EA 110w UV > 2" returns x 2
    • In wall Skimmer > 4" > Ultrasieve 3 > 2" > EA 20k pump > 2 Lines to a 1000mm Blade > Bypass to a Low Level 2" Return for winter

    What my quwstion is, should I be creating a general flow as I have now in my natural'ish pond, suck water out one end, pump it back in the other - OR do I mix it up a bit with Returns at various places at various heights Etc.

    My skimmer will be one end of my back wall, my blade in the middle of my back wall for visual reasons, so maybe all the returns at the other end ??

    Cheers All



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    It is final planning stages for me for my new enlarged pond (which I hope to start before the end of the month (Mini digger timing), and what I am toing and throwing with at the moment is returns and their placement, my current plans include the following (quick overview)
    • Internal pond dimensions 6500 L x 2500 W x 1600 D
    • 2 aeriated bottom drains drains > 4" > Drako Solum 25 > 4" > Drako Large Bio > 2" > EA 20k pump > EA 110w UV > 2" returns x 2
    • In wall Skimmer > 4" > Ultrasieve 3 > 2" > EA 20k pump > 2 Lines to a 1000mm Blade > Bypass to a Low Level 2" Return for winter

    What my quwstion is, should I be creating a general flow as I have now in my natural'ish pond, suck water out one end, pump it back in the other - OR do I mix it up a bit with Returns at various places at various heights Etc.

    My skimmer will be one end of my back wall, my blade in the middle of my back wall for visual reasons, so maybe all the returns at the other end ??

    Cheers All
    My pond is a round pond. And my mid returns. Are about 2 foot of the bottom of the pond. 6 foot deep. Underneath my wall skimmer. To ultra sieve 3. With a 15000lph pump. UV to mid returns. I used to run a 8000lph pump. But changed it to 15000lph
    And found this a lot better for the circulation for fish and sieve.
    Hope this helps
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    It is final planning stages for me for my new enlarged pond (which I hope to start before the end of the month (Mini digger timing), and what I am toing and throwing with at the moment is returns and their placement, my current plans include the following (quick overview)
    • Internal pond dimensions 6500 L x 2500 W x 1600 D
    • 2 aeriated bottom drains drains > 4" > Drako Solum 25 > 4" > Drako Large Bio > 2" > EA 20k pump > EA 110w UV > 2" returns x 2
    • In wall Skimmer > 4" > Ultrasieve 3 > 2" > EA 20k pump > 2 Lines to a 1000mm Blade > Bypass to a Low Level 2" Return for winter

    What my quwstion is, should I be creating a general flow as I have now in my natural'ish pond, suck water out one end, pump it back in the other - OR do I mix it up a bit with Returns at various places at various heights Etc.

    My skimmer will be one end of my back wall, my blade in the middle of my back wall for visual reasons, so maybe all the returns at the other end ??

    Cheers All
    I have just completed the fibreglass stage (Derbyshire Dig) just slightly smaller than your proposed pond. I have put in 2x aerated bottom drains with 3 below water returns about 1foot off the bottom all pointing in an anti clockwise direction. Additionally there will be an above water level blade return on the same end wall as the skimmer. 0C22910B-616A-44A1-BBFD-D9C47F379DFF.jpg
    The use of variflow pumps and tangential returns should keep the debris drifting towards the slightly sloping floor into the aerated bottom drains
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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    Member Rank = Sansai Mannh85's Avatar
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    Sorry for the off topic question but does the EA varipump take 2" pressure pipe or the smaller 2" waste pipe?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Tosai Marine convert's Avatar
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    The Jebao vari pump which I believe is the same pump, will allow you to use waste pipe or pressure pipe if you use female union connections off the pump.
    These are much better than any connections provided as they offer no restriction from the pump to your chosen pipe.

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mannh85 View Post
    Sorry for the off topic question but does the EA varipump take 2" pressure pipe or the smaller 2" waste pipe?
    The 10000 is 1 1/2 inch inlet and outlet.
    The 20000 is 2 inch inlet and outlet.
    The 30000 is 2 inch inlet and outlet.

    I have a ea 30000lph variable pump. And I use 2 inch rubber boots. Inlet and outlet
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    My pond is a round pond. And my mid returns. Are about 2 foot of the bottom of the pond. 6 foot deep. Underneath my wall skimmer. To ultra sieve 3. With a 15000lph pump. UV to mid returns. I used to run a 8000lph pump. But changed it to 15000lph
    And found this a lot better for the circulation for fish and sieve.
    Hope this helps
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Thanks Fred yes good to know thank you... so are a.your returns a.poi ting in a similar direction sort of like a cyclone motion (not silly fast but I hope.you know what I mean )

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Bass View Post
    I have just completed the fibreglass stage (Derbyshire Dig) just slightly smaller than your proposed pond. I have put in 2x aerated bottom drains with 3 below water returns about 1foot off the bottom all pointing in an anti clockwise direction. Additionally there will be an above water level blade return on the same end wall as the skimmer. 0C22910B-616A-44A1-BBFD-D9C47F379DFF.jpg
    The use of variflow pumps and tangential returns should keep the debris drifting towards the slightly sloping floor into the aerated bottom drains
    Ahhh thank you Mike yes very similar indeed I have read yours over the weeks... ideally i need to go back through loads to read the bits I need to again, but I think I would be on here all.day hahaha ha... so let me get this correct, all your returns are low other than the blade ??

    Glad to hear you also have skimmer and blade on same wall... with my OCD it has me mixed up a tad having planned mine out on paper I can't do it symmetrical how ever hard I try

    i was wondering if i should have separate heights or a pointing the same way, or even just random directions to mix things up Returns to pond - Is there a science to it
    Last edited by dbs; 24-08-2020 at 10:08 PM.

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  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mannh85 View Post
    Sorry for the off topic question but does the EA varipump take 2" pressure pipe or the smaller 2" waste pipe?
    Hmmmm I am hoping it is 2" pressure pipe as that what I have ordered, I have not got kne yet, I have 2 on order that I HOPE come in this week, as quite keen to have most kit in before I start... my wish may be wishful thinking though Returns to pond - Is there a science to it

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  19. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Mike Bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Ahhh thank you Mike yes very similar indeed I have read yours over the weeks... ideally i need to go back through loads to read the bits I need to again, but I think I would be on here all.day hahaha ha... so let me get this correct, all your returns are low other than the blade ??

    i was wondering if i should have separate heights or a pointing the same way, or even just random directions to mix things up Returns to pond - Is there a science to it
    There are three returns lower then the windows so as not to send turbulence into the window shelves. Wall 1(narrowest end wall with window)has no returns but the (Looking clockwise) side wall 2 (Without a window) has a tangental return pointing towards end wall 1. End wall 3 has a return (bottom left corner) pointing directly up along parallel with the wall 2 & the skimmer in the top right corner. The sidewall 4 has a return again pointing parallel to wall 3 therefore creating hopefully an anti clockwise flow with the additional snooker style bounce around the slightly narrower end around the bottom drain. With the floor slightly sloping towards each drain & both BDs aerated hopefully this will create almost a “ number 8 type flow around the pond..........well that’s my theory but the laws of nature may prove different.
    1kGal BD/Skim RDF/UV/k1 2.3kGal 2windows 2airBD/skim Sieve/Eazypod RDFcombi+bakki 3xVP/UV,ASHP

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  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marine convert View Post
    The Jebao vari pump which I believe is the same pump, will allow you to use waste pipe or pressure pipe if you use female union connections off the pump.
    These are much better than any connections provided as they offer no restriction from the pump to your chosen pipe.
    Thats good to know, thanks... I thought they looked pretty similar design, i did look at several, but thought on comparison the EA was slightly lower wattage iirc

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai perks842's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Hmmmm I am hoping it is 2" pressure pipe as that what I have ordered, I have not got kne yet, I have 2 on order that I HOPE come in this week, as quite keen to have most kit in before I start... my wish may be wishful thinking though Returns to pond - Is there a science to it
    Hey,

    As Fred said above, use the 2" rubber connections or 1 1/2" to 2" if need be for your pump to the 2" pressure pipe.

    Aids maintenance or taking pump off plus reduces vibration along your pipework from the pump's imbalance.

    ~Dan

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

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  25. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Thanks Fred yes good to know thank you... so are a.your returns a.poi ting in a similar direction sort of like a cyclone motion (not silly fast but I hope.you know what I mean )
    Hi mate. Mid returns . I have one pointing
    Clockwise and one pointing anti clockwise.
    And run one only at a time. I switch the direction of return. Once a week. The only draw back
    Is if you forget and leave one to long. With out switching for flow. You can have a dead leg. Which could build up bad bacteria. So I have to remember to alter and switch the flow lol
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Thanks Dan, Thats sounds sensible put like that, I shall do that

    Do they hold the pressure well ??
    Quote Originally Posted by perks842 View Post
    Hey,

    As Fred said above, use the 2" rubber connections or 1 1/2" to 2" if need be for your pump to the 2" pressure pipe.

    Aids maintenance or taking pump off plus reduces vibration along your pipework from the pump's imbalance.

    ~Dan

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

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  29. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Hi mate. Mid returns . I have one pointing
    Clockwise and one pointing anti clockwise.
    And run one only at a time. I switch the direction of return. Once a week. The only draw back
    Is if you forget and leave one to long. With out switching for flow. You can have a dead leg. Which could build up bad bacteria. So I have to remember to alter and switch the flow lol
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Ahhhh what a great idea, do you just have gates on them or a 3 way rotary ball valve ??

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  31. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Thanks Dan, Thats sounds sensible put like that, I shall do that

    Do they hold the pressure well ??
    i have had mine on for 5 years last pump and this new one lol thats inside the filter room out of the sun.
    as in the pressure i have had my ea 30000lph vario. on full flow for about 10 minutes to test them. i run the pump all the time at 12000lph.
    and as dan said great for if you are changing pumps and pipe work.

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  33. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbs View Post
    Ahhhh what a great idea, do you just have gates on them or a 3 way rotary ball valve ??
    i have the line running single from my ultra sieve 3 to after my uv. then it has a T piece or Y piece to two separate lines each with its own ball valve . so one closed and one open and run a 15000lph pump at full whack
    fred

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  35. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion dbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    i have had mine on for 5 years last pump and this new one lol thats inside the filter room out of the sun.
    as in the pressure i have had my ea 30000lph vario. on full flow for about 10 minutes to test them. i run the pump all the time at 12000lph.
    and as dan said great for if you are changing pumps and pipe work.
    Well, 2 recommendations so I say that is a plan for sure !!


    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    i have the line running single from my ultra sieve 3 to after my uv. then it has a T piece or Y piece to two separate lines each with its own ball valve . so one closed and one open and run a 15000lph pump at full whack
    fred
    Super job, is that ran from the Ultra 3 to the pump with a reducer boot, then onto your UV ??

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  37. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    If it's a gravity system which I'm sure it is, then the UV needs to be after the sieve and the pump but if it's a pump fed system then the UV has to be after the pump but before the sieve.

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  39. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    So that's sieve to pump to UV for gravity and pump to UV to sieve for pump fed

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