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  1. #1

    newbie looking for some suggestions

    first off, i'll say hi from sunny Surrey and hope i've posted in right place....

    Randomly I joined here to view some pictures and found my old governor (bigcarpchaser) on here - fI will trawl through his last 6 years of posts to see how much slagging off "the lazy git in the office" (me) he's posted....

    Oh and you'll soon realise i have no idea on all the terminology you guys use, so bare with me!

    but basically my situation is trying to sort out my parents GOLDFISH pond, they used to have ghost carp and a few garden centre koi that i had bought, but a heron I believe wiped them out (that's all sorted now) and the put in 9 goldfish/shubinkins (sp) that now amount to over 100 i'd say, they will be getting removed...

    I'll have to grab all the relevant info regards pumps, etc once i have the waders on....

    Current Setup:
    a fairly large in ground "natural" pond (been told it's approx 18ftx14ftx6ft with shelves and ledges) lined with a 40ft lined "stream" feeding into it (this also needs sorting out as too much liner is shown) set in a sloping garden, have managed to get the water a bit nicer and clearer (could be better) but all water PH, Ammonia, nitrite & nitrate levels are perfect.

    1No Oase 6000 pump feeding an all in one circular pod thing with a UV built in to top of the stream.
    1No Hozelock 8000 pump feeding a 4 bay including vortex, i believe it's this oase vortec 30000 (https://www.bradshawsdirect.co.uk/me...all-models.pdf) - brushes are fine, but the sponges are close to breaking up, so these need replacing.
    4bay filter.jpg

    1No Pontec PondoAir 450 pump with 2 air stones (vastly undersized!)
    1No 110w Aqua Evolution UV (replaced whatever rubbish was there previously)

    So then as bigcarpchaser can attest, I don't want to spend megabucks on a setup to improve this, but he has persuaded me to get on the look out for at least a nexus 320, then he starts chatting all kinds of craziness totalling about £5k, now that's not going to happen, 100% well certainly not at my parents pond!

    but bascially looking for some "suggestions"/tips on how to make this a bit nicer, if i can't get a new filter just yet, recommendations on the setup for the 4 bay?

    i'll be going in at some point with waders on and straightening up the sleepers as they slope down and also lifting up the edge of the pond, so it's all nice and level, so we can get rid of areas where there's about 8 inches of liner showing!

    there's potential to move filtration, equipment below the level of the pond as the shed is rotten and is being replaced.
    IMG_20200726_093154.jpg


    and just some general photos of how it was in May through to July and the new koi i've purchased and introduced (real monsters! haha) to the pond.

    MAY 2020

    IMG_20200513_120928.jpgIMG_20200513_121200.jpgIMG_20200513_121441.jpgIMG_20200513_121337.jpg

    JULY 2020

    IMG_20200726_092928.jpgIMG_20200726_093116.jpgIMG_20200726_093405.jpgIMG_20200726_092842.jpgIMG_20200726_092738.jpgIMG_20200726_092854.jpgIMG_20200726_092917.jpg

    FISH JULY 2020

    20200715_183134 (2).jpgtiddlers 6.jpgtiddlers 5.jpgtiddlers 4.jpgtiddlers 3.jpgtiddlers 2.jpgtiddlers 1.jpg


    Last edited by CBKOI; 02-08-2020 at 02:52 PM.

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  3. #2
    forgot to say, I've also been introduced to Coppens grower from cookes, as opposed to local petshop 25kg...

    various minor bits & pieces purchased

    API testing kit,
    barley straw extract treatment - had a bit of algae and seems to have worked very well.
    sludge buster treatment just trying to finish off the last bit as i don't think the bottom of the pond had been touched for about 6 years, so i've been scooping out debris, using pond vac.

    recommendations on fish treatments i should have at the ready for the inevitable issues it seems everyone has on vastly superior setups to this?

  4. Thanks bigcarpchaser, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Welcome aboard Chris.
    Tell your old man to get his wallet out newbie looking for some suggestions
    Plenty on here to help out with improving the multibay, not me unfortunately as never had one.
    Probably involves K1 and some air.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  7. #4
    The pond is looking much better though mate thanks to your efforts.
    I’m sure the fish will do well once you’ve got everything under control.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  9. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Wain's Avatar
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    Hahaha hide photo 2

    theres people on here who are obsessed with plugs, sockets and covers

    Obviously dated but a canvas for you too enhance further

    look forward to seeing what you do, interested in the stream feed and bringing that too date

    load of fish, bright colours the goldies I mean

    seems they are happy with the conditions

    lets hope the Koi will be too

    keep us all posted and

    welcome . . . . another one from Surrey pmsl

    someat in the water down there lol
    1000 gal
    2 x Hozelock 6000ltr 9W UV
    Allpond Spin Filter 8000 11W UV
    Blagdon pond oxy 640 ltr/hr

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Wain's Avatar
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    I have a gravity fed filter system and use layers of Stone and shell,
    Alfragrog, plastic media, three colour layer of filter sponge on top.

    you could substitute any of these in yours if you wanted

    just think about removal of coarser materials first then through to finest and an area for bacteria to live off waste before it flushes all the way through.

    Hope this helps with a new media or two you can use.
    1000 gal
    2 x Hozelock 6000ltr 9W UV
    Allpond Spin Filter 8000 11W UV
    Blagdon pond oxy 640 ltr/hr

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  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Wain View Post
    Hahaha hide photo 2

    theres people on here who are obsessed with plugs, sockets and covers
    what makes it worse my old man used to be a sparky (granted was 30+ years ago...)

    and also on my intro I also forgot to apologise that the pond isn't rectangular, half and half with a window (wasn't sure if i missed that as a T&C when signing up to here )

    Quote Originally Posted by Wain View Post
    I have a gravity fed filter system and use layers of Stone and shell,
    Alfragrog, plastic media, three colour layer of filter sponge on top.

    you could substitute any of these in yours if you wanted

    just think about removal of coarser materials first then through to finest and an area for bacteria to live off waste before it flushes all the way through.

    Hope this helps with a new media or two you can use.
    predicament we're in at the moment spend a couple of hundred on Japanese matting, K1 (or the like) then end up moving over to a different system altogether. so think we're going to persevere with the insides at the moment, i have removed the long brush from the vortex at the moment and just put it in with the other brushes at the moment, and that seems to have helped a little bit and the vortex can actually try and do it's thing, as i think it was part blocking it previously and wasn't really getting a swirl on.

    but definitely need to improve something, as i think the pond is just getting covered in dead algae, there's a very fine layer of sediment all over the liner and as soon as a fish swishes, then a cloud of green appears, it does settle after an hour or so.

    the fish seem to have gone into grazing overload at the moment and seem to be just chowing down on the green - until i chuck the coppens in....

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  15. #8
    recommended decholorinator?

    do i need to get a 3 stage job or are these single chamber ok?

    and also recommended treatments to have at the ready in case of any issues with the fish? I've seen it seems imperative to get a microscope, but that can wait for the minute.

  16. #9
    just looking at the pond, as mentioned we need to lift a couple of sleepers up (the numbnuts that "helped" a couple of years ago, emptied the pond out and put a new liner in and have put some wood along the sleepers and then screwed through the liner to hold up it up, rather than lift the sleepers) now due to this, i need to add about 8 inches of liner.

    we have the liner - i didn't realise but it's this HDPE liner - it's more like a tarp than rubber.

    what's the best way to join two pieces together
    tape & sealant?
    and recommendations if possible

    starting to contemplate replacing the whole liner and digging in a bottom drain.....

  17. #10
    Got in the pond, checked the 2 pumps.

    1 Hozelock 8000 to the filter box.
    1 Oase 6000 to the stream pod filter.

    The Oase pump was filthy, the Hozelock was proper disgusting, the box was about 3/4 full of green sludge.

    All cleaned out and the stream and filter outlet running much stronger obviously.

    Am going to get another pump or satellite for Hozelock as we have a deadspot.

    The pond has a few shelves for plants and has 2 levels and at the base of one shelf/level there's a bit of sludge build up.

    Also going to get a better air pump for a large stone we have to try and help the dead spots.

    Sent from my KFMUWI using Tapatalk

  18. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    Regarding de-chlorination, check out Manky Sanke's web site on the subject -

    Effective dechlorination

    In your situation I would be inclined to use sodium thiosulphate in solution rather than hardware it will save a chunk of upfront cost.

    I can't offer any experience in respect of the liner fettling required but agree that if your enthusiasm, effort and cash resource will stretch to it a new liner with 1 or more bottom drains will be a major improvement.

    I have to say I'm a little surprised / disappointed there haven't been more contributions to your thread - keep up the good work!

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  20. #12
    Thanks for info.

    I'm guessing if it was rectangular, had 2 bottom drains, 3ft in below and 3ft above with a window and about £10k to be spent, more people would be interested newbie looking for some suggestions

    Nah to be honest, it's a boring pond/ "project" in terms of koi keeping.

    But the forum in itself has helped with some basic knowledge I didn't have, is also a little frustrating some of the stickies are quite a few years old and obviously out of date now.

    But I will endeavour in smartening the pond up in it's current format, getting to grips with the basics and will persuade the parents to do a big upgrade next year.

    But just the few basics I have done already has improved the water quality and clarity and it's been fun watching the small fish get braver and now venturing out of their hidey holes.

    Forgot to add, actual measures it properly today as well, 20ft x 12ft x 4.5ft at the furthest points, so need to work out correct volume as best I can for treatments.....

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  22. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    the forum in itself has helped with some basic knowledge I didn't have,
    Agreed, there is a huge amount of info here, available to all for the sake of a bit of jiggling with the search function and experimentation with the search terms used. Since joining in May I have found everything I needed to get up to speed without starting a single thread!

    When calculating volume, don't forget to allow for water in the pipework filters and stream.....

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  24. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Wain's Avatar
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    Especially stream as it is quite a length.

    Keep going we are all reading and watching

    Sometimes you don't feel as if you can add through lack of experience or knowledge



    Sent from my H3311 using Tapatalk
    1000 gal
    2 x Hozelock 6000ltr 9W UV
    Allpond Spin Filter 8000 11W UV
    Blagdon pond oxy 640 ltr/hr

  25. Thanks CBKOI, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  26. #15
    right, decision time (not a big one) Cetus Sieve or an Evolution Aqua "The Answer" to drop in the vortex?

    difference is £300 for brand new Vs £170 brand new, I'm guessing the sieve gives more as a "future proofing" but as it seems now plans may be changing in that, parents may be moving in the next year, do i go for the cheaper drop in?

  27. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    Go with the sieve.

    Unless I'm much mistaken the Answer is 'old tech' in fact I'm surprised you have found one for sale!

    Sure it will work as intended but isn't likely to be easy to move on if the vortex eventually goes, where as there is a ready market for used sieves, in fact you can probably find one s/h for less than £300.

    Both have been advertised recently on the forum here

    JIm
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  29. #17
    cheers for replies.

    i'll grab a sieve as and when one pops up.

    think the next issue is to address the pump situation, now as mentioned we have a couple of in pond pumps 8000lph & 6000lph, approximate volume is about 36000 litres (bit tricky to work out with the ledges, pipe work, stream, etc!)

    i'm guessing an approx 3hour turnover isn't sufficient enough for the pond?

  30. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    Quicker is better but be careful you don't pump faster than the filter can pass water. 3 hours is quite possibly optimistic when head loss is considered.

    Either start another thread with loads of info about pipe sizes length of runs and number of bends (for clever folks on here to calculate the head loss - beyond me!) together with size of the vortex and other chamber filters

    or

    splash out on a large (20000lph) adjustable pump or 2 and adjust them for max benefit.

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

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  32. #19
    Minor update, received a hailea 60lpm air pump (jeez this thing is massive and weighs a tonne! Haha ) with a 3 valve manifold, this will be initially to run a 200mm air disc and going to chuck a branch off into the bio bay for the moment.

    Also started to remove the rocks, plants, etc to raise the height of the pond to make it more level, sand is all ready then of course it's raining.

    Waiting on Gh & Kh testing kit to arrive, 20m of air tubing, manifold, couple of valves for filter bay and dpd4 tabs as well and just bought a 20k lph variable jebao pump off the forum.

    Should never have joined here and left it as a goldfish pond! Haha

    Parents are deciding whether to stay put in the next week or so, once decided if they're staying I'll create a small anoxic pond at the top or partway (or maybe even both) down the stream.

    And a couple of photos just of the fish...


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    Last edited by CBKOI; 19-08-2020 at 09:58 AM.

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  34. #20
    have managed to raise the water level about another 4 inches, without moving the sleepers, still on the piss at the moment, but does look much better, just need to redress the edge now, have also introduced a couple of ledges, for plants (maybe anoxic baskets as well).

    grabbed about 50L of K1 from bigcarpchaser (along with some bits and pieces to create a few anoxic baskets) but now the big question.....

    how the hell do i stop it blocking the return pipe? haha

    i cut up an old pond basket and covered the pipes, but they just stuck to the bottom and pretty much stopped the water getting through.
    bought some plastic grid, but that's had the same effect.
    so looked at these, as these strainers are cone shape, i'm assuming that'll stop the K1 from blocking?

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Removable...p/313064058968

    is that a decent price?

 

 
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