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Thread: Ken's Pond Build
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03-07-2020, 06:33 PM #21
Hi all,
Would another option be a 4 inch return from the drum to the anoxic using gravity and then a submersible pump / external pump to the returns or waterfall?
Effectively using the anoxic area as an extension of the drum and pump from there instead of the drum.
This would allow you to switch off the water fall in the winter and direct the flows where you like
Just a thought....
Cheers
Ady
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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03-07-2020, 09:15 PM #22
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03-07-2020, 09:29 PM #23
Version 2 of the plumbing attached. The main advantage is that there's a lot less 2" pipe required and it's a much simpler design.
I have run the skimmer to the RDF but will have to balance it with the bottom drain. Both will likely be 110m pipe.
I have one pipe feeding the right hand return and anoxic filter. This will favour the return, but I don't want a huge flow to the anoxic filter either so it may suit.
I then have another pump on the opposite side of the anoxic filter which will feed out on a single pipe to the two left hand side returns. Again, it will favour the nearest return.
Questions:
- Is it ok to have both the bottom drain and skimmer going to the RDF or would I be better putting the skimmer on the return?
- Have the anoxic and right hand return on one line. I want to hide the pipe as much as possible so won't have ball valves on them. Will this cause problems?
- Have both the left hand returns on the one pipe with no ball valves - again, will this seriously impact the flow from the second return in line?
- How do I make sure the anoxic filter isn't emptying quicker than its filling? - presume a higher pressure pump feeding it and a lower pressure pump pumping out of the filter to the two returns? I also want keep the waterfall operating so need a good feed into it.
- Is it ok to fit a ball valve under water in the anoxic pond? It may not be need to service the pump in the anoxic filter as it's higher than the main pond.
Pond7.jpg
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03-07-2020, 10:25 PM #24
I would favour you return all your water from the RDFto the anoxic pond. A good submersible pump would be well able to feed 4 X 1.5" pipes that run along both side of the pond and enter as jets. Don't worry about the flooding of the anoxic pond as this will spill over your waterfall and if it was too much you can use a variable speed pump for sending the water from the REF to the anoxic pond.
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03-07-2020, 10:28 PM #25
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03-07-2020, 10:33 PM #26
Since the anoxic pond is sitting higher than the pond can you not feed the pipes through the anoxic pond wall and run it inside the top of the pond wall incased in concrete.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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03-07-2020, 10:59 PM #27
I could do that or maybe run them down underground and then back up the inside of the blockwork for each return. Less concrete one way and less pipe the other.
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04-07-2020, 06:48 AM #28
Less pipe is good - reduces friction loss:-)
JimI don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........
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04-07-2020, 08:51 AM #29
Going down then running along the underground then pushing back up the wall will seriously weaken the umph of the force of the water flow.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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04-07-2020, 09:14 AM #30
Was thinking that. I think running it along the top some way and shuttering it in with concrete would be best. It would also be difficult to keep the pipe straight if running it up though the brickwork and backfilling with concrete as we go.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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04-07-2020, 10:09 AM #31
Another option for the pipework is to get wideish capping for the walls and run the pipe underneath it outside the wall. Still not fully hidden, but easier to install and maintain.
Before I pull the trigger on this thing in terms of pouring concrete over the next couple of weeks. Am I ok with one bottom drain in a 4m x 2.5m x 1.5m pond? Not sure how I would connect a second one and a skimmer to am RDF with two inputs.
Would it make sense to put a second one there even if I don't use it? I could put a ball valve on it and flush it out from time to time. Just conscious that once it's done it's not something that can be retrofitted.
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04-07-2020, 11:19 AM #32
https://www.omnicalculator.com/construction/pipe-volume looking at this calculator you can push approx 26000 listers through 3 meters of pipe however as you push the water up towards the RDF you get resistance but as you have 15000 listers 1 should be fine. Not sure if there is a rule of thumb used by pond builders. By handy if there was.
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Tropheus Thanked / Liked this Post
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04-07-2020, 11:19 PM #33
Hi,
I’ve read other threads on this forum indicating that a single bottom drain has a pull radius of around 2 meters.
I think that’s based on people’s experience and sounds reasonable to me.
You could put two bottom drains in and join them before they met at the drum inlet but that would require two ball valves to enable you to balance the flow from both.
This adds extra expense and your still only able to pull the same amount of water through those two as you are through the single drain and skimmer.
Or you could run two drains one to each drum inlet and run the skimmer off a separate line to a Sieve to increase the pull.
I suppose it is about budget at the end of the day and how often you want to turn the water over.
A single bottom drain might be ok though, I have a single drain and my pond is 3.1m by 2.5m
Every now and then I sweep the muck towards the bottom drain with a brush but I wouldn’t say this is absolutely necessary.
Cheers
Ady
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05-07-2020, 10:44 AM #34
Thanks Ady. I think I've settled on one bottom drain. I'm probably on the limit with 4m x 2.5m, but adding a second one without a second filter doesn't appear to give much advantage. Like you, I'd have no problem giving the bottom of a pond the odd sweep if any crap needed to be encouraged in the direction of the bottom drain.
I'm also installing a Spindrifter which theoretically improves the efficiency of the bottom drain. .
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05-07-2020, 11:26 AM #35
Was thinking more about the pond returns last night. While encasing the returns in the wall is cleaner, I'm concerned about the lack of access is something goes wrong. There's a nightmare post on another forum where a guy encased them in concrete and now has a big damp patch on one of his walls.
I mentioned above about running the pipes on the outside wall just below the capping stones and then drilling into the pond at the relevant points.
What about if I run the pipes from the anoxic filter inside the pond wall just below the capping stones as per the attached. I could then drop down elbows in the relevant direction for the returns. Black pipe against a black pond background should be ok. My only concern would be the fish injuring themselves. I'm guessing it would be ok as it is rounded plastic. I could also install a couple of ball valves at the pump in the anoxic filter to give me some balance of the flows. I presume it's ok to mount ball valves underwater?
Finding black PVC 50mm or 2" pipe and fittings in Ireland could be a problem.
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05-07-2020, 05:35 PM #36
I found Black 40mm waste pipe. Would this do the job in terms of width or do I need wider and more heavy duty?
BTW, I'll be rendering and painting so won't be trying to fix this to fibreglass.
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/floplast-s...0mm-x-3m/23406
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05-07-2020, 09:03 PM #37
I think B&Q stock 50mm pipe.
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05-07-2020, 09:05 PM #38
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05-07-2020, 09:10 PM #39
https://www.pipeforce.ie/pvc-fittings-valves/
They have all sizes.
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05-07-2020, 09:11 PM #40
https://www.pipeforce.ie/pvc-fittings-valves/ they have all sizes.
Best plants to remove Nitrate
pug has a very impressive veg filter on his pond, have a look at some of his his youtube videos....