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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    New build-foundations and blockwork

    Hello all,

    By way of intro my name is James and after a long lay off (20 odd years) I’m building a new smallish scale pond (circa 3000 gallons). My last pool was 8000 gallons with concrete/Fibrelass construction with a series of large vortex filters and Japanese matting (sort of Peter Waddington style)
    Alot seems to have changed regarding filters in this time and I’m looking to use a nexus 220. I’m on a budget and after 1 divorce need to keep costs down .


    Last edited by Spongebob; 01-06-2021 at 12:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    You don't say how deep the pond will be. The water level in the nexus needs to be the same as the pond. Rather than pump feed the nexus if the pond is shallow lower the nexus and gravity feed will work fine.

    In fact if the water level is more than about 650 (check the manual on line for the exact figure) above ground, you may have to raise the nexus using blocks or something similar.

    im
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jampot View Post
    You don't say how deep the pond will be. The water level in the nexus needs to be the same as the pond. Rather than pump feed the nexus if the pond is shallow lower the nexus and gravity feed will work fine.

    In fact if the water level is more than about 650 (check the manual on line for the exact figure) above ground, you may have to raise the nexus using blocks or something similar.

    im
    The OP doesn’t want to sink the nexus into the ground so he’ll have to be pump fed.

    You can pump feed via a bottom drain, not sure of the merits of it over a solid handling pump in its place.
    You’ll end up with mashed crap going into your filter whichever way you look at it. Not having a pump cage to get blocked I suppose it the major benefit.
    Maybe more flow/less powerful pump
    Maybe consider a sieve before your filter of choice, gravity returning to pond.
    It wouldn’t be my choice but then I’m not the one having to dig a massive hole to put a nexus in lol.


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  5. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    The OP doesn’t want to sink the nexus into the ground so he’ll have to be pump fed.

    You can pump feed via a bottom drain, not sure of the merits of it over a solid handling pump in its place.
    You’ll end up with mashed crap going into your filter whichever way you look at it. Not having a pump cage to get blocked I suppose it the major benefit.
    Maybe more flow/less powerful pump
    Maybe consider a sieve before your filter of choice, gravity returning to pond.
    It wouldn’t be my choice but then I’m not the one having to dig a massive hole to put a nexus in lol.


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    I suppose the benefit is drawing off the actual bottom also but you’re right at the end of the day it’s then mashing up the contents and depositing into the filter, I suppose I just needed someone to say it, gravity feeding would seem the only proper way I’m thinking?

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  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Jampot's Avatar
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    the pool is ground level
    Sorry, I interpreted that to mean it is built from ground level - 3000 gallons all below ground is already a pretty big hole!

    Jim
    I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish, I keep water. I don't keep fish I kee........

  8. #6
    Lol.
    We’ve al done it mate
    Gravity feed is undoubtably the better option if you can make it work, that’s why half in/half out ponds make life a bit easier as you don’t have to have a massive hole to put you filters in generally.
    You may have to dig down a tad to get a nexus in I guess as they’re flipping massive but a modest size 3000 gallon pond at say 5ft deep would indeed require a large filter pit of a similar depth, then there’s the disposal of waste to consider if you haven’t got a deep manhole nearby to drop into.


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  10. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Gallonage will probably finish up less and half in and out is becoming more likely! I know most people regret not going bigger in the end. I’m more concerned with getting the depth and overdoing the size of the filter, plus it won’t be overstocked....

  11. #8
    “Won’t be overstocked”

    Those famous last words lol
    What’s your overall dimension in plan going to be then?


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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    “Won’t be overstocked”

    Those famous last words lol
    What’s your overall dimension in plan going to be then?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Changing by the day! if I survive another day of digging it will be roughly 3.5 x 4.0 x 1.5 m deep. I might even get to 6ft. So somewhere around 3500-4000 gallons. It’s now Changed from liner to being done properly with block work, render and fibreglass.

    Big thank you to bicolormoth for the advice and the forthcoming Nexus 220, plus the kind invite to see it in action . The only saving grace is being surrounded by fields thanks to the local farmer (although he doesn’t know it) for the disposal of some of the hideous clay! Although it’s actually pretty easy digging.

    oh and of course it’s coming out of the ground now!

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  15. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    At about 5ft 6” finished depth now, another full days digging . Broken through the clay at last though as I couldn’t of put concrete on top of there, nice firm ground underneath it too, big relief.

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  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Looking at getting the foundations and side walls in on the build and it seems (to me) most people massively over engineer their koi ponds? Having worked in the building industry it seems on the below ground section for something that effectively has pressure from the inside and outside wouldn’t necessarily need rebar on the sidewalls? ( pond size approx 3.5 x 3.5 x 1.6 m) (2/3rd below ground level) As opposed to using hollow blocks with rebar I think I’d favour this approach? (plus achieving a smother finish) on a shaped pool, the section above ground would be a full block lengthways wide plus an outer skin to match the house to give a wide coping size.

    Any thoughts?


    html image hostingas

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  19. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Nice mate. Looks good

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  20. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Looking at getting the foundations and side walls in on the build and it seems (to me) most people massively over engineer their koi ponds? Having worked in the building industry it seems on the below ground section for something that effectively has pressure from the inside and outside wouldn’t necessarily need rebar on the sidewalls? ( pond size approx 3.5 x 3.5 x 1.6 m) (2/3rd below ground level) As opposed to using hollow blocks with rebar I think I’d favour this approach? (plus achieving a smother finish) on a shaped pool, the section above ground would be a full block lengthways wide plus an outer skin to match the house to give a wide coping size.

    Any thoughts?
    The pond I'm about to break earth on will be ~1.8m in courses 100mm (same blocks as yours). The ratio will be 70cm above, the water level may not be right up to the top so 1.0-1.1m below. The walls I was going to drop 60cm for the wall footings. So 18 courses of blocks.

    To strengthen the slab-to-wall block joint I'll drill in some rebar pins and use masonry epoxy to secure. I'll use some galvanised brick mesh across the joint every 5-6 courses.

  21. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    The pond I'm about to break earth on will be ~1.8m in courses 100mm (same blocks as yours). The ratio will be 70cm above, the water level may not be right up to the top so 1.0-1.1m below. The walls I was going to drop 60cm for the wall footings. So 18 courses of blocks.

    To strengthen the slab-to-wall block joint I'll drill in some rebar pins and use masonry epoxy to secure. I'll use some galvanised brick mesh across the joint every 5-6 courses.
    Just to clarify thats not my pond, just an example. What I’m getting at is why all the extra strengthening on the below ground section? For something that essentially isn’t free standing once full and surely is immensely strong with blocks laid in that manner (even above ground!)

    For example you wouldn’t do anything like that when even building a house? I’m not getting how you would get any movement when you have earth one side and Deep water the other and a structure shape which will be naturally strong (any pond shape) ? Understood on rebar in the slab as there is potential for cracks there.

    is everyone just massively over engineering their ponds or is this based on actual engineering fact?

  22. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Just to clarify thats not my pond, just an example. What I’m getting at is why all the extra strengthening on the below ground section? For something that essentially isn’t free standing once full and surely is immensely strong with blocks laid in that manner (even above ground!)

    For example you wouldn’t do anything like that when even building a house? I’m not getting how you would get any movement when you have earth one side and Deep water the other and a structure shape which will be naturally strong (any pond shape) ? Understood on rebar in the slab as there is potential for cracks there.

    is everyone just massively over engineering their ponds or is this based on actual engineering fact?
    That's true - the issue is for my build is ensuring the slab and block joint doesn't shift and crack the fibreglass resin due to bus vibrations (buses cause vibrations and our house has a some seasonal movement cracks too). I'll have insulation on the walls but a non-insulated slab with a block 45deg cut block at the joint too. The entire back garden is sand with rocks underneath.

    I'll probably put some support rebar into the fence spurs too. We get shed loads of wind that blows across our garden so keeping the ground and any movement near the pond blocks is required too. I'm also concerned with freezing temperatures on blockwork over time - it should be rendered but water in the block will creep in over time, however the impact on this is probably in the last 15-30cm of ground anyway.

    Most DIY builders of pond simply go off either a basic design that has enough fat in the design that any mistakes or variations are simply not an issue. They don't have the structural or quantitive analytics backgrounds to risk making a change to the basic "tried and tested".

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    So after countless days of digging finished at about 2200 last night ( the pics below were about 1900) finished depth Close to 6ft and as the pics show a round shape, the final dimension of which will be around 4 metres circumference. For various reasons ( including nearly killing the slave child labour) I’ll have to step out at about 3ft depth. The reason in my mind for the circular shape is a giant vortex with returns back in at different levels.

    Of course this morning the pond is filling up nicely and there are 3 toads having a party.

    Anyone know where I can lay my hands quickly on a 4” pressure fit bottom drain with or without diffuser?









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  26. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    I think you’d need to call each koi shop to check state of stock. Seems many are getting low of stocks or have stuff on back order.

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  28. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    So a few issues with this continual rain ...

    invader zim gir wallpaper

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  30. #19
    Oh dear, that looks sludgy!!


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  32. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Spongebob's Avatar
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    Some small progress lol. Concrete in under bottom drain and assembled ready to pop in.....








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