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  1. #1

    New first time pond advice

    03A8FDC9-CDFE-4617-A822-69654899B640.jpg

    Hi All
    Iíve started building a pond with guidance from my builder who has some basic pond experience and ended up on this forum because I decided to have bit of a search regarding his and an online shops advice on a filter. I intend to run a water feature of a slate wall with a spray bar at the top running back into the pond so I was recommended to use an oversized pressurised filter that I could redirect the outlet via a timed motorised valve. The pond holds around 5800 litres and the filter is a 40000 model with a 20000 pump. Whatís spooked me is that everyone here seems to be completely anti pressure filters but it seemed to suit my situation perfectly as I also only have about an 800mm wide space planned to house it. Iíve attached a picture of where we are up to and as you can see itís too late to instal a bottom drain but not to late to change the filter type if any of you can recommend something better? Appreciate any guidance as just want to try get this right first time as much as possible.
    Thanks



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G21 View Post
    03A8FDC9-CDFE-4617-A822-69654899B640.jpg

    Hi All
    I’ve started building a pond with guidance from my builder who has some basic pond experience and ended up on this forum because I decided to have bit of a search regarding his and an online shops advice on a filter. I intend to run a water feature of a slate wall with a spray bar at the top running back into the pond so I was recommended to use an oversized pressurised filter that I could redirect the outlet via a timed motorised valve. The pond holds around 5800 litres and the filter is a 40000 model with a 20000 pump. What’s spooked me is that everyone here seems to be completely anti pressure filters but it seemed to suit my situation perfectly as I also only have about an 800mm wide space planned to house it. I’ve attached a picture of where we are up to and as you can see it’s too late to instal a bottom drain but not to late to change the filter type if any of you can recommend something better? Appreciate any guidance as just want to try get this right first time as much as possible.
    Thanks
    I've used pressure filters - first a 4500l and then a 9000l on a 1700l pond. The issue found is that the amount of space for the mechanical and biological filtering is too small for koi. I also found that the pond had a constant battle with fines and algae with a UVC inbuilt. Now the same pond is a little over filtered at the moment with a Solum 16 drum and bio - it's clear as a bell running at 4-6000lph. Once the new pond is done (~11-12K) then the drum filter will be slightly under gunning.

    In the end there's masses of technology and $$$ spent on them. In reality you just need to ensure that the water is kept correct regardless of how.

    I would point out three things:

    * mechanical filtration really does pay dividends - removing the waste without it needing to be broken down.

    * biological filtration - the holy grail is that no nitrogen is left (Ammonia, Nitrites or Nitrates). To me the "tried and tested" mechanism of bio with air to convert ammonia to Nitrate only to need water changes seems a little wrong. The pond design seems wrong. Why? because Anoxic filters drive that to N2 gas. So look at all the mechanisms - including veggie. Food - selecting a food that results in large amounts of silt (ash ingredient for example) is not good for a pressure filter or any sponge/bio.

    * ease of maintainance = optimal filtration.

    They all have that + and - but from experience of cleaning out pressure filters.. it just seemed like being a slave to a bad design.. rather than having a filter that doesn't have me cleaning the sponges every other day in the mid of winter.

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  4. #3
    Youíve built it upside down, all your water will fall out.


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  6. #4
    Thanks for that, yes last thing I want is extra maintenance in the cold winter months. Have just been looking at the eazypod auto. Looks like it will fit the space but I’ll need to change one of the pipes I’ve already fitted then use a separate pump for my feature.

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  8. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    You’ve built it upside down, all your water will fall out.


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    ha just seen that don’t know what happened there

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  10. #6

    New first time pond advice

    Quote Originally Posted by G21 View Post
    Thanks for that, yes last thing I want is extra maintenance in the cold winter months. Have just been looking at the eazypod auto. Looks like it will fit the space but Iíll need to change one of the pipes Iíve already fitted then use a separate pump for my feature.
    Thereís one for sale on here


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  12. #7
    My advice is to stop right now and dig a bottom drain. You will regret it if you don't.

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  14. #8
    I agree with the Coyman it doesn't look too late to build in a bottom drain . Bit of a pain but even if set on the current base and a new base poured above the current base it is doable.

    Just one comment the walls don't look that substantial.

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  16. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    If I was you I would defiantly do a bottom drain it will have the single biggest impact on water quality and pond reliability, the walls all need to be back filled behind with concrete if you haven't already as the water pressure will push the blocks over, normally we would say to lay the blocks on their side and not on the edge

    As for your filter, the pressure filter is not recommended because it cant cope with the waste from the koi, they are very messy fish, normally a filter will say something like this

    Pressure Filter Premium 20000
    20,000L (No Fish)
    10,000L (With Fish)
    5,000L (With Koi)

    So a 20,000 pressure filter will be barely suitable for Koi in a 2,000 litre pond, that's 1/4 of its rated capacity and you will be cleaning it every other day if not every day, i've been there and tried it
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  18. #10
    Thanks all for that had a horrible feeling asking the question would not get me the answers I wanted but best to address it now. Don’t really want to start adding the bottom drain now as the the welded box liner is here and waiting to go in, how about a retrofit one? And yes idea is to back fill the gaps behind the walls with concrete.

  19. #11
    You can fit a bottom drain with a liner, you just have to cut a hole in it and seal it up, be brave lol


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  21. #12
    Retrofit not any good then?

  22. #13
    Also am I going down the right lines with the eazypod auto?

  23. #14
    Think of a toilet that cannot be flushed so you spend a lot of time designing a system to clean it regularly. Also 4" solids is not a strong enough wall and your builder should at least have known that. Bite the bullet now and save yourself grief in the future

  24. #15
    How do you mean? If I back fill with concrete it still won’t be strong enough?

  25. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Generally we would advise to put the blocks on their side, but your pond is relatively by comparison to some of the ponds on here, you should be fine with the blocks as they are, BUT you will have to back fill with concrete, this will allow the water pressure to push onto the blocks and then to the concrete and then to the surrounding compacted soil, its not ideal but it will work.

    Retro bottom drains do work to an extent, but the purpose of the bottom drain is to get the solids to the filter without chopping it up into tiny pieces which is what a retro bottom drain will do, the pump will act as a macerator and will not be anywhere near as efficient as a gravity fed bottom drain

    As for your filter, i cant really comment as I've never used an eazypod, but they are koi filters and many people use them so you're on on the right track with it
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  27. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Youíve built it upside down, all your water will fall out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Check his location, it's Australia

    Two things you have missed, the first one as already mentioned is a bottom drain and the second one is an in wall skimmer. Both will make a massive improvement to the clarity of your water.
    Have you ever looked into a sink after washing up a load of dirty dishes and then once finished you pull the plug out you will see how much is being pulled across the bottom of the sink. That's the same thing your bottom drain will do only on a much larger scale.
    Last edited by Frimley Koi keeper; 24-05-2020 at 12:29 PM.

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  29. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Alburglar's Avatar
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    You do not need a bottom drain to run gravity fed on this pond. Just a 90 bend and a length of pipe. Then just push it into your tommy drain. Have the pipe about 10mm off the floor of the tank and it will work exactly like a bottom drain. It will just take up space and not look as neat.
    The same could be said for a skimmer, just use your smaller return. Same theory, just turn the pipe upwards and cut to length. Have a loose fitting floating bit of pipe around the top, which will adjust with the water height. Then just run a seperate return back to the pond.
    Last edited by Alburglar; 24-05-2020 at 03:17 PM.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

  30. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    Have you ever looked into a sink after washing up a load of dirty dishes.
    PMSL, and how would you know anything about that have you been looking over the other half's shoulder
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  32. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    You do not need a bottom drain to run gravity fed on this pond. Just a 90 bend and a length of pipe. Then just push it into your tommy drain. Have the pipe about 10mm off the floor of the tank and it will work exactly like a bottom drain. It will just take up space and not look as neat.
    The same could be said for a skimmer, just use your smaller return. Same theory, just turn the pipe upwards and cut to length. Have a loose fitting floating bit of pipe around the top, which will adjust with the water height. Then just run a seperate return back to the pond.
    Maybe a photo or a drawing of those suggestions would be useful.

 

 
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