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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    No.
    Gravity fed through filters, then Pump back to pond. So:

    The pump is after the filters. It is constantly trying to empty the filter. Gravity constantly tries to refill what is being pumped out, which drags the water through the bottom drain and through the filters without mashing it up.
    First filter is mechanical 2nd is biological.
    Yes what i meant was if i cant achieve a gravity system (housing the filter below the water level as pic) does the bottom drain loose most of its benefit eg transporting the larger waste

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by G21 View Post
    Is there an issue with the auto model apart from its inability to be converted from gravity to pump and the price as i quite liked the idea of it cleaning itself? and what did you add to yours to improve it? Theres an auto listed on ebay now not far from me.
    Ive watched wrightys videos on you tube and seen his home made skimmer, it looks like a solution I could use that would also power my water feature.
    From what I have read about them on here, they don't clean very well.

    Someone did a year on review of one on here recently. Worth reading before you spend any money

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    I was considering it with my tub, but went for a BD in the end.
    ... For a skimmer just spin the tube round to point to the surface.
    Nice fish BTW

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by the coyman View Post
    Have a look at an airlift. It is easy and cheap to run. Allows you to take the dirty water coming from the pond higher so your filter can be above the water level.
    interesting never seen that before. Looks like it could gain me upto 200mm. Wish I’d started this thread before the dig
    Thanks

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  7. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Its only a bekko Frim, but its a big one.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  9. #46
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Its Possible this guy built a sieve in the ground and then pumps out to an above ground filter house.
    https://youtu.be/4H0xHLosPfI
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

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  11. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    G21,

    We have all been through the macerator when designing and building (then redesigning and rebuilding) our ponds. Me, I am on my third major filter design and have gone through a pressurised filter with separate foams in a box, a blue barrel filter, things with a vortex, something different with a weir (sieve apparently), each of them slightly more expensive than the last until eventually we spend the right amount of money to achieve something that we don't need to muck about with every day or every week. If someone asks me what I would advise as a filter system, I tell them an RDF or as we like to call it a drum, add in a container with a bit more natural filtration and wallah!. Costs more but solves no end of headaches. Why bother with something that minces up the crud, or keeps the crud in the water until you decide to clean it.

    Cannot tell from your photo but if you have more ground to play with (in which you were going to put some filters anyway), extend your pond. Build a wall across what exists, make part of that your filter area. Add in a new deeper bit of pond with a proper bottom drain with a 4 inch pipe back to your up filter area. This should allow you to fit a filter at water level which will be gravity fed. Out of the filter (RDF hopefully) and into a bionic chamber from where you can pump water back to the pond (through your UV system fitted to the wall and then your heater when you need one) with the one amazing volume adjustable pump that does everything. Your new wall can house your in-wall skimmer that connects straight into your filter and can also be gravity fed. Screed the existing (and remaining) bit of pond floor to create a slight slope for the crud to slide into the deeper bit. Forget about your liner and go for a cement render which can be painted or if you have the cash a glass fibre lining.

    Or just keep goldfish with a pressure filtration system.

    Kenny
    Last edited by Handy Kenny; 24-05-2020 at 11:21 PM.

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  13. #48
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    I built a sieve that works at water level ie the water level of the pond and the sieve are the same. Still got it if anyone is interested. I bring the water in from the other side of the sieve in a 4 inch pipe, turn the pipe and fire the water down the face of the sieve. Dirt would collect at the bottom of the sieve which is now under water. Fitted a 4 inch waste pipe (about foot long) at the bottom of the sieve into which the dirt collects and is basically out of the water flow. Every now and again open up the 4 inch waste and which cleans out the crud. Clean water exits from existing exit points.

    Kenny

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  15. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Handy Kenny View Post
    G21,

    We have all been through the macerator when designing and building (then redesigning and rebuilding) our ponds. Me, I am on my third major filter design and have gone through a pressurised filter with separate foams in a box, a blue barrel filter, things with a vortex, something different with a weir (sieve apparently), each of them slightly more expensive than the last until eventually we spend the right amount of money to achieve something that we don't need to muck about with every day or every week. If someone asks me what I would advise as a filter system, I tell them an RDF or as we like to call it a drum, add in a container with a bit more natural filtration and wallah!. Costs more but solves no end of headaches. Why bother with something that minces up the crud, or keeps the crud in the water until you decide to clean it.

    Cannot tell from your photo but if you have more ground to play with (in which you were going to put some filters anyway), extend your pond. Build a wall across what exists, make part of that your filter area. Add in a new deeper bit of pond with a proper bottom drain with a 4 inch pipe back to your up filter area. This should allow you to fit a filter at water level which will be gravity fed. Out of the filter (RDF hopefully) and into a bionic chamber from where you can pump water back to the pond (through your UV system fitted to the wall and then your heater when you need one) with the one amazing volume adjustable pump that does everything. Your new wall can house your in-wall skimmer that connects straight into your filter and can also be gravity fed. Screed the existing (and remaining) bit of pond floor to create a slight slope for the crud to slide into the deeper bit. Forget about your liner and go for a cement render which can be painted or if you have the cash a glass fibre lining.

    Or just keep goldfish with a pressure filtration system.

    Kenny

    Thanks for the thought Kenny but the only space I can use is the one between the side with the pipes on and the fence which is about 1m wide 3m long. The original plan is to carry on with the blockwork on that side up to fence level and create a shed to store all the gubbins in. It is becoming apparent that nothing less than gravity fed is good enough for koi so all hinges on what the builder says tomorrow re dropping the floor level in the shed. TBH this is killing the lockdown budget so if I do have to add this extra work it may just have to go on pause, like you say stick to a couple of goldfish or just fill the lot in.

  16. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Alburglar View Post
    Koi produce alot more crap. They are huge beasts, the size of an average dog. Imagine 6 dogs doing a turd in a 2metre box every day.
    The idea of gravity fed is that it avoids a pump until the water is clean. The pump mashes the 6 dog shits and blends it into the water, which makes them very hard to remove. If you have a gravity feed to a mechanical filter, it removes the 6 dog shits whole. You then pump the clean water back to the pond.

    If you bury the mechnical filter in the ground, like a sieve you can then pump to above ground after that.

    ... And yes I am very chuffed with that analogy.
    Brilliantly put


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  18. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Brilliantly put


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I thought he was describing a bad day at your place Mr Big lol

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  20. #52
    It could very well be, my little dog is a bloody pooing machine!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  22. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    It could very well be, my little dog is a bloody pooing machine!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Why is it that the smaller the dog the more or the bigger the Richards are

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  24. #54
    Hi again. OK I am about to finish digging my pond and now need to make the decision of bottom drain or no bottom drain. The problem is I am a complete novice and really not sure on what I am supposed to do. I have already bought a pump and pressurised filter. Am I understanding this correctly?: I buy a bottom drain and dig a hole at deepest part and put it in. I dig a trench to the wall of the pond and lay 4 inch pipe connected to the bottom drain. I then tunnel out the pipe through the wall (not sure how to do this) and run the pipe up to a gravity filter which is buried in the ground to pond level. Can I then connect a pump to the outlet of the filter which can then send the water to the pressurised filter which has a UV then that can send the water up to the waterfall. Would this work? All the diagrams I look at online seem really complicated.

    So bottom drain to filter to pump to pressurised filter up to waterfall?

    If this is the case has anybody got any links to all the bits I will need as not sure where to look or what to look for.
    Last edited by koimike; 25-05-2020 at 11:37 AM.

  25. #55
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    You really want the BD in the middle of the floor of the pond and then make that the lowest point so you will get a better draw on the BD.

    The first filter from the BD needs to be designed to be gravity fed and then from there you can go pump and if you have to pressure filter. Also you will need a UVC after the pump unless the pressure filter has already got one built in?

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  27. #56
    yes the pressure filter has a UVC so thought I may as well use that seeing as I have already bought it.
    In terms of the pipe, is it special pipe? When I get to the pond wall can I then trench it out and up at 45 degrees to the gravity filter? Would that not compromise the wall of the pond - I'm not sure how I get the pipe beyond the wall without compromising the wall of the pond?

  28. #57
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    How are you getting the pipe to the middle of the pond floor? I'm not sure where you are in the building process from memory?

    If you are running the pipe under the ground then you will be better off using soil pipe between the pond and the first gravity fed filter. It's just do you risk push fit connections buried in the ground or do you go for solvent weld fittings?

    Coming up at 45 degrees or 90 degrees from the side of the pond is just what ever works best for you I think.

    Anything you dig near or next to the side wall of the pond should be properly back filled and if you are at all worried about it, maybe strengthened as required. Best speak to a builder or similar about that?

  29. #58
    Ok so builders been round and no chance of dropping the shed floor without sacrificing the fence in the process and tbh I just don’t need the hassle or expense. Something that did come up though was could we bury a box filter in the ground in the shed then pump from there to whatever other filtration there is? I’m only 6000l so presume a box for that wouldn’t be too big?

  30. #59
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    I don't know if you can use a standard box filter as a gravity fed type filter as I think they have to be pump fed?

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  32. #60
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G21 View Post
    Ok so builders been round and no chance of dropping the shed floor without sacrificing the fence in the process and tbh I just don’t need the hassle or expense. Something that did come up though was could we bury a box filter in the ground in the shed then pump from there to whatever other filtration there is? I’m only 6000l so presume a box for that wouldn’t be too big?
    That would work, or just a sieve in the floor and pump after that, like in the video I posted up.
    At least that way, the largest crap is removed before the pump.
    2660 Gallons. 4" Bottom Drain and Skimmer. Draco Solum 16 Drum. Anoxic Filtration. Air lift returns.

 

 
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