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  1. #1

    30,000 Filter Solution

    So $1M question or rather 30,000 litre question, assume you have a bottom drain in place what filter solution would you for and why?
    So much conflict of views, it would be good to hear...



  2. #2
    Sorry put in the wrong section, could an admin please move to the filer sub group please?

  3. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    30,000l ... singular bottom drain? 8"?

    I'd be specifying a filter setup capable of 60,000lph so running at 1-2x turnover rate is possible. Operational cost wise - I'd look to see if I could use twin airlifts with option of using pumping.

    You did say £1M ?

    Given the amount of waste 30 fish could produce.

    Mechanical:
    a) pre-filter with a twin high flow sieve to remove the large solids, leaves etc and string algae.
    b) twin 50,000lph drum setup - running both in parallel with 70micron screens. If one fails then you have the other providing some capability.
    c) second stage 6 drum-in-parallel setup - finer mesh at 10 micron running at 5,000lph each.

    Bio
    500l moving bed
    50 basket anoxic

    500l output sump with four 80W amalgam UV spaced inside.

    Three 2m 4" airlifts from the sump for summer use. Protein removal on the airlift.

    Four 30,000lph variable pumps from the sump for valved mid water returns for low rate summer / winter use - with heat pump option on the pumped returns.

    And a beer bridge in the filter house.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I'd go for sieves for mechanical. I've said that rather than drum just to keep running costs and water consumption down on such a big pond.

    Id use an amalgam uv, ideally dropped into the sieves if possible so no restriction on flow.

    Then I'd go anoxic for bio - cheap start up cost, no running cost.

    Then, like Nick said, I'd have an array of air lifts shifting the water from the anoxic back into the pond. Again cheap set up cost and low running cost.

    The above set up would have a super low running cost - you wont even need to do as many water changes as a typical set up - but should still filter the water really well and support a large biomass of fish.

    And I'd second the beer fridge 30,000 Filter Solution30,000 Filter Solution

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    12,500L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  6. #5
    thanks both, so the main agreement is a sieve, drums i have not been sold on, my current setup is 20000l with 15koi, and thats being served with a three bay vortex, epic 1, all pumped via two 20000l variable pumps..
    Never had an issue with fish health or poor water quality ..
    If i had all the money in the world then maybe Nicks solution but 4 30000l pumps !! , would be like a torrent in the pond

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  8. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Well drums are deemed to be superior to sieves. They're self cleaning after all.

    I've got a drum and tbh I'm shocked at how much water it uses. I've possibly under rated it for my pond (12k pond with a 16k drum) or trying to pull too much through it (I reduced flow but it still goes off frquently) - but given that we are in a climate crisis I do feel bad for essentially wasting so much water just to automate the cleaning.

    Given that the design of a sieve is to use the flow of the water to push the muck off the mesh to an extent (ok may need the occasional spray down and purge the waste line) then I do wonder if using 100's of extra litres of water a year just to clean the mesh (as well as the electricity usage - albeit minimal) is really worth it.

    I'm sure others who have gone from sieve to drum will be better placed to comment on this and have a different opinion on this. But on a big pond I personally think a well designed sieve will do all the mechanical for you.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
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  10. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Well drums are deemed to be superior to sieves. They're self cleaning after all.

    I've got a drum and tbh I'm shocked at how much water it uses. I've possibly under rated it for my pond (12k pond with a 16k drum) or trying to pull too much through it (I reduced flow but it still goes off frquently) - but given that we are in a climate crisis I do feel bad for essentially wasting so much water just to automate the cleaning.

    Given that the design of a sieve is to use the flow of the water to push the muck off the mesh to an extent (ok may need the occasional spray down and purge the waste line) then I do wonder if using 100's of extra litres of water a year just to clean the mesh (as well as the electricity usage - albeit minimal) is really worth it.

    I'm sure others who have gone from sieve to drum will be better placed to comment on this and have a different opinion on this. But on a big pond I personally think a well designed sieve will do all the mechanical for you.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    I have about 1.7l per wash but that depends how far I crank the tap open. I've read people try to get a drum wash every hour. 24 washes, or 41 litres per day = 14,892 litres a year. At £4/m3 that's 4x14= £56/year in water. If you're not washing to a surface water drain but on the garden then you can apply for a discount so that's £1-2/m3 and thus £10-15/year. So far I've been getting hours between washes - and have a bucket under the waste but I have a smaller pond currently.

    Next pond will be the same as yours and I will probably bump into the same issue - originally I planned just an 8K pond hence the 16K drum. The option then would be (a) upgrade to a 25, or (b) add a sieve.

    I still think a sieve takes water to clean and with a karcher k2 sprays 360lph the water wasted quickly adds up (so that's 2 seconds of power wash vs a drum wash).


    Some of the big systems have a settlement chamber on the waste. The wash pump uses clean side water and the waste settlement surface flow back out into the inlet chamber of the drum to recycle water. It sacrifices outright flow rate for water saving.

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  12. #8
    If youíre changing 10% of 30,000 litres a week, a drum washing pales into insignificance.
    Iím with twosugars, sieves, anoxic, airlifts, solar battery charging to run air pumps. Normal electric for a UV.
    Low energy, low cost.

    Alternative ďstate of the artĒ would be a BIG drum, couple of flowfriends, massive Bakki shower and a cubic meter of K1.

    And at least 2 bottom drains and 2 skimmers (I may have mentioned that on the other thread lol)

    Both solutions are simple, why make life complicated?


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  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    I have about 1.7l per wash but that depends how far I crank the tap open. I've read people try to get a drum wash every hour. 24 washes, or 41 litres per day = 14,892 litres a year. At £4/m3 that's 4x14= £56/year in water. If you're not washing to a surface water drain but on the garden then you can apply for a discount so that's £1-2/m3 and thus £10-15/year. So far I've been getting hours between washes - and have a bucket under the waste but I have a smaller pond currently.

    Next pond will be the same as yours and I will probably bump into the same issue - originally I planned just an 8K pond hence the 16K drum. The option then would be (a) upgrade to a 25, or (b) add a sieve.

    I still think a sieve takes water to clean and with a karcher k2 sprays 360lph the water wasted quickly adds up (so that's 2 seconds of power wash vs a drum wash).


    Some of the big systems have a settlement chamber on the waste. The wash pump uses clean side water and the waste settlement surface flow back out into the inlet chamber of the drum to recycle water. It sacrifices outright flow rate for water saving.
    As you know Nick I was having issues with getting the flow and cleaning cycles balanced out on the drum. So my drum started off (In winter) with maybe 2 hours between washes. And I expected it to be cleaning perhaps every hour or so in warmer weather, when i bought it. Which I would've been happy with.

    But now it's at least every 25 minutes (sometimes down to 7 minutes) and that's with the air supply to the air lift dialled back (but still enough flow for the bd to work) and the sensor lowered too and I even tried cleaning the mesh as best I could too in case it was clogged.

    My water meter also suggests it uses about 3 - 4 litres a wash (draco, setting 1). So my drum has been been using waaaay more water than your projections. And I'm under, rather than over, stocked at the mo.

    To help, I've since closed the isolation valve slightly to the water supply and the drum is now using less per wash. I just hope the lower pressure from the nozzles doesn't lead to it needing to wash more frequently.

    Unfortunately I'm plumbed into the sewers so depending on how closely they inspect things30,000 Filter Solution, unlikely to get the discount.

    If had a sieve I would've just given the mesh a squirt with the hose on jet mode rather than a pressure washer or even just use a brush - mainly because I don't have a pressure washer lol

    I'm also thinking that on a 30k pond I would not be doing regular 10% or even 5% water changes, but much smaller ones as the waste would be more diluted than in a smaller body of water. I suppose the volumes would be dictated by the water testing. And I suppose that'd be the added bonus of anoxic - it reduces the need to do them anyway so it'd be win win.

    Ahh, if only I had the space to builds 30k pond!

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  15. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    As you know Nick I was having issues with getting the flow and cleaning cycles balanced out on the drum. So my drum started off (In winter) with maybe 2 hours between washes. And I expected it to be cleaning perhaps every hour or so in warmer weather, when i bought it. Which I would've been happy with.
    Replacing the 58 micron mesh with a 70 micron mesh would give you a higher flow rate, The solum 25 has a longer drum giving more surface area and flow rate that way.
    With the same waste mass/1m3 feed then the longer drum would give more waste mass per flush. Although the longer drum uses more water with the extra nozzle.
    This is ignoring any biofilm build up or general buildup reducing mesh open area.

    Not to side track the thread Iíve looked at options as my original pond design was to be 8-9K volume but is now becoming 11-12k. I may use a 70micron mesh and in the design I have build in a drum and bio bypasses for a sieve.

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