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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai forever's Avatar
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    Build in Bottom Drain But Not Use??

    Quick question, finalising my new pond build, its going to be at the end of a new patio, the patio will be about 1M raised, my new pond is going to be 5.5M by 2.5M by 2M deep, i was not planning on using gravity fed as i already have two filters which are going to be situated at the end of each end, built into to match the patio one is a Epic One the other is a 3 bay with vortex kockney koi green box which gives me ample filtration...
    However should i also put in a bottom drain just in case in the future i change my mind, given its low cost to install?? Also can you just block it up if it not used?



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Sim's Avatar
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    Hi forever
    you would need several bottom drains for a pond that size, if was me I would put three in.
    also not sure it would be a good idea and not use them as the water etc would sit in the pipework which wouldn’t be good.
    i think there was a thread here where someone was wanting to use a pump fed filter with bottom drains simulator to you.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Hi and welcome to the forum,

    My pond is a strange shape, its 5.2 long but the width is 2.0 at the short end and 3.6 at the wider end, its 1.8 meter water depth, which equates to around 4600 gallon, I have 2 bottom drains an in wall skimmer and 3 inlets

    If you are installing bottom drains then you need to use them as the water will stagnate in the pipe, personally I wouldn't build a pond without bottom drains they are so much better than pump feed, I would sell your old filtration and get a drum, again this is something I wouldn't be without
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai forever's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help so far, i guess what i could do is connect the bottom drain to the vortex? would i need some kind of sieve first and then pump it out of there as the vortex will be sitting above the water line..
    See crude drawing attached
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Take a look at the picture on this website my explain it better than I could

    Q & A - Basic Filter Types - Page 3 - Kockney Koi
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    My advice to anyone on a new build.
    Put bottom drains in. And use them.
    What a difference they make to a pond.
    With your size pond. I think you will need them. Or you will have problems.
    Just my opinion.
    Fred

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai forever's Avatar
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    Thanks so looking at my design would there be enough pressure to flow to the vortex or would i need a sieve then pump ?

  12. #8
    For a pond that large I’d be matching the filtration to the pond not the other way round.
    As Sim says, you want at least a couple of bottom drains in there.
    Flog the old filters and do it properly, you’ll only regret it later.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai forever's Avatar
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    the KK vortex is rated upto 20000 i think and can be gravity feed, my question is would the bottom drain have enough pressure to reach the box as per my diagram or should i install a sieve and pump it up?

  15. #10
    You can’t gravity feed to a filter above the level of the pond, the water level in both has to be the same. It’s got nowt to do with “pressure” as in an “open system” the water won’t flow from one chamber to another without a pump.
    Water does not flow uphill

    Does this help?



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  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai forever's Avatar
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    Great pic thanks, yes my picture was misleading, the vortex would be sunk into the end of the patio so would be the same level as the pond.
    If i added two drains would you join the pipes as per the attached?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai forever's Avatar
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    Great pic thanks, yes my picture was misleading, the vortex would be sunk into the end of the patio so would be the same level as the pond.If i added two drains would you join the pipes as per the attached?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Sim's Avatar
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    I ran a big nexus off the two bottom drains each with valves on to purge to waste, it ran like that without problem.
    not sure it would be as good going into a vortex, new ponds tend to have high volume of water going through.
    i think I would either put a drum in (which I run now) or possible a nexus.
    the other option you mention is good too a sieve, again I think I would run two for good flow.
    the filters you have I’m not personally convinced about, if I was going to use one of them perhaps on a skimmer.

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  21. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Doghouse Riley's Avatar
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    Each to his own and all that.

    Why do purgable pump sumps seem so out of favour?

    Filter maintenance for most of the year, is five minutes a week.

    I had one with my pool for over thirty years. With a weekly purge to waste, you can be confident there's no gunge lurking in the bottom drain or horizontal 4" pipe. With a filter pump at the top of the sump and a drain pump at the bottom, more gunge will settle in the bottom of the sump and less will end up in the filter. I used a home-made filter consisting of 4 X 40 gallon tanks stacked in pairs with open cell foam and a lot of flowcore servicing a 3000 gallon pond with a 24/7 trickle change via dechlorinator.
    Foam is so out of fashion, but so effective, the more it gets blocked the better it works. It only need a scrape with a wet n' dry vac, once a year if that.

    My filter was in a room in an adjacent garage, water from the sump passed through a UV before entering the filter. I had an Aqua-Oxy 1000 in the room with the air lines threaded down the filter return pipes. I got bored with checking the water quality, it was so consistantly acceptable that I stopped doing it.

    I'm amazed at how much some people will pay for a filter system and how much work is still required to service them.
    "The information's out there,
    You only have to let it in." (Jesse Stone)

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  23. #15
    Yer we’ve heard


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  25. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by forever View Post
    Great pic thanks, yes my picture was misleading, the vortex would be sunk into the end of the patio so would be the same level as the pond.If i added two drains would you join the pipes as per the attached?
    They won’t pull properly, 2 drains, 2 pipes


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  26. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Doghouse Riley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Yer we’ve heard
    Thanks for letting me know, I'll sleep better tonight.

    Doh!
    "The information's out there,
    You only have to let it in." (Jesse Stone)

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  28. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley View Post
    Thanks for letting me know, I'll sleep better tonight.

    Doh!
    Your jokes were better, not much though


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  30. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Doghouse Riley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Your jokes were better, not much though

    Sorry!

    By your original reponse, I assumed you obviously thought I posted my comments entirely for your benefit,

    That was rather presumptious of you.

    Glad to have the opportunity to put that right.
    "The information's out there,
    You only have to let it in." (Jesse Stone)

  31. #20
    No worries, keep up the good work.
    You know this is 2020 and not 1920 don’t you?


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