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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    4" solvent weld BD pipework - Grrrrr......so fustrating

    So yesterday I dry fitted all my BD pipework upto the filter. All pieces cut, 2 x elbows fitted and slide valve etc everything went ok.
    I would like to add that yesterday i struggled to to get everything to fit nicely together with the help of some fairy liquid on the joins to reduce the friction.
    Today i decided i was going to mark the pipes with a marker to assist and gauge how far each piece needs to sit and glue together so marked up with a marker pen took apart and chamfered the edges with file, lightly sanded the joins to create a key. Obviously i have wiped off all traces of the washing up liquid ready to glue and finally cleaned with a PVC solvent cleaner.

    Glued the first bit of pipe ready to insert in an elbow and BOOM! No way was that going in all the way before the glue cured. Managed to get it back out with brute force. I now have set glue on the pipe and inside the elbow which i'm now trying to sand off again without much success.

    Just seems that without the aid of washing up liquid as a lubricant it just doesn't want to fit together.

    Starting to wonder about calling a local plumber when the lockdown is lifted, but who knows when that will be and i need to crack on with the build.

    Any tips on working with this stuff would be greatly appreciated

    Thasnks
    Paul


    Last edited by pfrosty; 06-05-2020 at 12:25 PM.

  2. #2
    You need to be using specialist pipe cleaner alongside the glue - ie clean the joint, glue and then slide on.


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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai richythepom's Avatar
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    Hi Paul, I'd try going much heavier with the sanding on both the 'male' and 'female' surfaces that will bond - using coarser grit paper and finishing with some 'wet and dry' paper. This should give you a bit more wiggle room to slot one into the other.
    I'd also suggest this doesn't (and arguably shouldn't) have to be too neat, as the solvent will effectively melt these surfaces together so that they're basically welded.

    You could also have a rubber (or wooden) mallet on hand (with a block of wood maybe between the hammer blows and pipe) to 'persuade' things immediately once the pipe is inserted ; )
    Hope this helps!

    Rich

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  6. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Sim's Avatar
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    If it’s 4” it can be awkward, a lot easier if there are two of you doing it.
    make sure all pipework is at least 2mtrs long though to help social distancing

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  8. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Scamp's Avatar
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    Hi did you put the glue on both pipes to join? As normally will slide on even after roughing up..

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  10. #6
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris.viner87 View Post
    You need to be using specialist pipe cleaner alongside the glue - ie clean the joint, glue and then slide on.


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    Thanks for the reply......can you recommend which one?

    Just realised aswell i maybe using the wrong cement. The one i have is from B&Q and it says for non pressure pipe. Ooops
    Last edited by pfrosty; 06-05-2020 at 12:27 PM.

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  12. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Thanks for the reply......can you recommend which one?
    Yep - I used Anchor Plastics for all my plumbing.

    https://www.anchorindustrialplastics...t-accessories/


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  14. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    I had problems when I first started using pressure pipe about 25 to 30 years ago, my problem was not putting enough glue on and putting it on both pipe and fitting, sometimes I put glue on twice to keep the glue wet, I also found the type of glue effected the ease, I did mine in full sun 2 years ago without any issues


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  16. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Thanks for the reply......can you recommend which one?

    Just realised aswell i maybe using the wrong cement. The one i have is from B&Q and it says for non pressure pipe. Ooops
    Yep, definitely the problem, that glue won’t melt the pressure pipe to allow it to slide on and bond


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  18. #10
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Thanks Roy what products do you use for cleaning and gluing?

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  20. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Thanks Roy what products do you use for cleaning and gluing?
    For cleaning I use MEK

    https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-LITRE-PUR...pid=8002616070

    For glueing I got it from JBR plastics, but it’s the stuff in the link below

    https://www.airconspares.com/pvcu-pr...RoCrEAQAvD_BwE


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  22. #12
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Ordered some Mek cleaner and some weld on wet r dry 725 cement. Hope it's the right stuff as I struggled to find the cement you got.

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  24. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Pfrosty. I had the same issue as you when doing my 4" pressure pipe.

    I tried cleaning the pipes up first with acetone and i deffo had the right glue and was gluing both the pipe and fitting. Whilst the acetone might've helped soften/activate the plastic up to help the glue, it did bugger all to make the joints fit any easier. I hope for your sake the mekp does the job as it's a hard job otherwise.

    I found the bottom drain and ball valves the worst. The elbows I had went on fairly ok though. All from the same supplier as well.

    In fact when I tried to glue the pipe into the bottom drain it got stuck 1/3 of the way in and the glue went off. 4" solvent weld BD pipework - Grrrrr......so fustrating

    I was in a dilemma whether to leave as is or try and undo it. Well after a couple of whacks with a hammer the bottom drain luckily came off without damage. Glad I did that as the weld was so weak it almost certainly would've leaked.

    In the end I resorted to using a mechanical sander and sanded down all of the ends of the pipes and inside of the fittings.

    It made the job much much harder and longer than it should've been. But on the upside I'm confident that none of the joins should leak as they were well keyed up.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  26. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrosty View Post
    Ordered some Mek cleaner and some weld on wet r dry 725 cement. Hope it's the right stuff as I struggled to find the cement you got.
    That's what I use just done a load of 2 inch
    Pipe work with that stuff lol.
    Do the inside of fittings and outside of pipe
    Then push home and then give it a little twist. Sealed

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  28. #15
    Member Rank = Sansai pfrosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twhitenosugar View Post
    Pfrosty. I had the same issue as you when doing my 4" pressure pipe.

    I tried cleaning the pipes up first with acetone and i deffo had the right glue and was gluing both the pipe and fitting. Whilst the acetone might've helped soften/activate the plastic up to help the glue, it did bugger all to make the joints fit any easier. I hope for your sake the mekp does the job as it's a hard job otherwise.

    I found the bottom drain and ball valves the worst. The elbows I had went on fairly ok though. All from the same supplier as well.

    In fact when I tried to glue the pipe into the bottom drain it got stuck 1/3 of the way in and the glue went off. 4" solvent weld BD pipework - Grrrrr......so fustrating

    I was in a dilemma whether to leave as is or try and undo it. Well after a couple of whacks with a hammer the bottom drain luckily came off without damage. Glad I did that as the weld was so weak it almost certainly would've leaked.

    In the end I resorted to using a mechanical sander and sanded down all of the ends of the pipes and inside of the fittings.

    It made the job much much harder and longer than it should've been. But on the upside I'm confident that none of the joins should leak as they were well keyed up.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the info, i think i may have to buy a sander.
    When the cleaner and weld on arrives, I will have one more attempt at getting it right.
    What concerns me a little bit more is the fact that I'm so far on into the build now and all the BD pipework that is set into the base of my pond has been glued with the stuff i got from B&Q which i now know is wrong stuff. Not much i can do about that now so fingers crossed it wont leak. Guess i will find out when i fill the pond, but i'm fearing the worst

  29. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I get why you're worried.

    Have you tried leak testing it? If not it's probably worth doing, especially if you now doubt the integrity of your joints.

    You can buy an adjustable bung from toolstation for £4 or £5. Put this into the opening of the 4" pipe in the bottom drain.Then from the other end of the pipe fill up with water until you can see the top of the water. Leave it for 24 hours then check to see if it's dropped.

    If it hasnt - don't worry about it. If it has, well it's best to be able to sort it out now rather than further down the line when the ponds closer to completion.

    For any of the joints you can reach from inside the pipe, you can also put some pu18 or ms290 sealant round it just to be sure. Just to be sure.

    Good luck!

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  31. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Also it might be worth calling the manufacturer (there is usually a helpline on the tub/tin) of the glue you used to ask why exactly it can't be used on pressure.

    It might just be that it does work but they just can't guarantee it'll hold when put under high pressure - which won't affect you as the pressure will be tiny compared to what pressure pipes are designed to take.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
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  33. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Pomster's Avatar
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    I used to fit miles of pressure pipe and i always found it better to scuff up, chamfer and give a good wipe over with Acetone.
    A good tool to have around for a hobbyist is a pipe strap and a hairdryer, moreso if your on your own.
    Avoid glue thats congealed
    Not to read a newspaper makes you uninformed. But to read a newspaper makes you misinformed

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