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06-05-2020, 11:53 AM #1
4" solvent weld BD pipework - Grrrrr......so fustrating
So yesterday I dry fitted all my BD pipework upto the filter. All pieces cut, 2 x elbows fitted and slide valve etc everything went ok.
I would like to add that yesterday i struggled to to get everything to fit nicely together with the help of some fairy liquid on the joins to reduce the friction.
Today i decided i was going to mark the pipes with a marker to assist and gauge how far each piece needs to sit and glue together so marked up with a marker pen took apart and chamfered the edges with file, lightly sanded the joins to create a key. Obviously i have wiped off all traces of the washing up liquid ready to glue and finally cleaned with a PVC solvent cleaner.
Glued the first bit of pipe ready to insert in an elbow and BOOM! No way was that going in all the way before the glue cured. Managed to get it back out with brute force. I now have set glue on the pipe and inside the elbow which i'm now trying to sand off again without much success.
Just seems that without the aid of washing up liquid as a lubricant it just doesn't want to fit together.
Starting to wonder about calling a local plumber when the lockdown is lifted, but who knows when that will be and i need to crack on with the build.
Any tips on working with this stuff would be greatly appreciated
Thasnks
Paul
Last edited by pfrosty; 06-05-2020 at 12:25 PM.
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06-05-2020, 11:57 AM #2
You need to be using specialist pipe cleaner alongside the glue - ie clean the joint, glue and then slide on.
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pfrosty Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 12:00 PM #3
Hi Paul, I'd try going much heavier with the sanding on both the 'male' and 'female' surfaces that will bond - using coarser grit paper and finishing with some 'wet and dry' paper. This should give you a bit more wiggle room to slot one into the other.
I'd also suggest this doesn't (and arguably shouldn't) have to be too neat, as the solvent will effectively melt these surfaces together so that they're basically welded.
You could also have a rubber (or wooden) mallet on hand (with a block of wood maybe between the hammer blows and pipe) to 'persuade' things immediately once the pipe is inserted ; )
Hope this helps!
Rich
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pfrosty Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 12:17 PM #4
If it’s 4” it can be awkward, a lot easier if there are two of you doing it.
make sure all pipework is at least 2mtrs long though to help social distancing
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06-05-2020, 12:19 PM #5
Hi did you put the glue on both pipes to join? As normally will slide on even after roughing up..
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 12:24 PM #6
Last edited by pfrosty; 06-05-2020 at 12:27 PM.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 12:27 PM #7
Yep - I used Anchor Plastics for all my plumbing.
https://www.anchorindustrialplastics...t-accessories/
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RoyLittle0, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 12:28 PM #8
I had problems when I first started using pressure pipe about 25 to 30 years ago, my problem was not putting enough glue on and putting it on both pipe and fitting, sometimes I put glue on twice to keep the glue wet, I also found the type of glue effected the ease, I did mine in full sun 2 years ago without any issues
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
2 x 18,000 lh pumps
Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
Idealseal MS290
My Pond Build
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06-05-2020, 12:30 PM #94600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
2 x 18,000 lh pumps
Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
Idealseal MS290
My Pond Build
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 12:34 PM #10
Thanks Roy what products do you use for cleaning and gluing?
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RoyLittle0, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 12:38 PM #11
For cleaning I use MEK
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-LITRE-PUR...pid=8002616070
For glueing I got it from JBR plastics, but it’s the stuff in the link below
https://www.airconspares.com/pvcu-pr...RoCrEAQAvD_BwE
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
2 x 18,000 lh pumps
Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
Idealseal MS290
My Pond Build
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06-05-2020, 04:06 PM #12
Ordered some Mek cleaner and some weld on wet r dry 725 cement. Hope it's the right stuff as I struggled to find the cement you got.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 04:55 PM #13
Pfrosty. I had the same issue as you when doing my 4" pressure pipe.
I tried cleaning the pipes up first with acetone and i deffo had the right glue and was gluing both the pipe and fitting. Whilst the acetone might've helped soften/activate the plastic up to help the glue, it did bugger all to make the joints fit any easier. I hope for your sake the mekp does the job as it's a hard job otherwise.
I found the bottom drain and ball valves the worst. The elbows I had went on fairly ok though. All from the same supplier as well.
In fact when I tried to glue the pipe into the bottom drain it got stuck 1/3 of the way in and the glue went off.
I was in a dilemma whether to leave as is or try and undo it. Well after a couple of whacks with a hammer the bottom drain luckily came off without damage. Glad I did that as the weld was so weak it almost certainly would've leaked.
In the end I resorted to using a mechanical sander and sanded down all of the ends of the pipes and inside of the fittings.
It made the job much much harder and longer than it should've been. But on the upside I'm confident that none of the joins should leak as they were well keyed up.
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06-05-2020, 05:03 PM #14
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pfrosty Thanked / Liked this Post
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06-05-2020, 08:15 PM #15
Thanks for the info, i think i may have to buy a sander.
When the cleaner and weld on arrives, I will have one more attempt at getting it right.
What concerns me a little bit more is the fact that I'm so far on into the build now and all the BD pipework that is set into the base of my pond has been glued with the stuff i got from B&Q which i now know is wrong stuff. Not much i can do about that now so fingers crossed it wont leak. Guess i will find out when i fill the pond, but i'm fearing the worst
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06-05-2020, 08:37 PM #16
I get why you're worried.
Have you tried leak testing it? If not it's probably worth doing, especially if you now doubt the integrity of your joints.
You can buy an adjustable bung from toolstation for £4 or £5. Put this into the opening of the 4" pipe in the bottom drain.Then from the other end of the pipe fill up with water until you can see the top of the water. Leave it for 24 hours then check to see if it's dropped.
If it hasnt - don't worry about it. If it has, well it's best to be able to sort it out now rather than further down the line when the ponds closer to completion.
For any of the joints you can reach from inside the pipe, you can also put some pu18 or ms290 sealant round it just to be sure. Just to be sure.
Good luck!
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window
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06-05-2020, 08:43 PM #17
Also it might be worth calling the manufacturer (there is usually a helpline on the tub/tin) of the glue you used to ask why exactly it can't be used on pressure.
It might just be that it does work but they just can't guarantee it'll hold when put under high pressure - which won't affect you as the pressure will be tiny compared to what pressure pipes are designed to take.
Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window
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06-05-2020, 08:53 PM #18
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I used to fit miles of pressure pipe and i always found it better to scuff up, chamfer and give a good wipe over with Acetone.
A good tool to have around for a hobbyist is a pipe strap and a hairdryer, moreso if your on your own.
Avoid glue thats congealedNot to read a newspaper makes you uninformed. But to read a newspaper makes you misinformed
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Best plants to remove Nitrate
pug has a very impressive veg filter on his pond, have a look at some of his his youtube videos....