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  1. #141
    This thread has inspired me to try airlifts too.

    I want to use 110mm pipe with 2 meters length/height but I need to raise 100mm over the water line to get over the pond wall. I'd like to achieve 30,000 - 40,000 LPH in total perhaps with 2 or 3 airlifts each receiving 60 LPM of air. Possibly directly from a drum filter (drum has 3 x 110mm outlets, designed for 55,000 LPH flow) or perhaps airlifts from a 5000 litre holding tank directly after the drum filter.

    NickK-UK, would you be kind enough to calculate the flow rate difference if I used an internal air chamber (90mm pipe) inside the 110mm pipe? It's really difficult to step up to 160mm chamber due to the lack of fittings where I live.

    If the flow reduction is significant, I will try to import 160mm fittings and copy what everyone else is doing.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #142
    Interesting post about the 6” fittings as I have looked online here in the uk and can’t find anyone who does any of them - which has made me start thinking about just going for a ‘U’ bend solution with a simple air stone (glued into the air hose so I don’t have to retrieve it should it come off) in the long rising pipe.

    regarding air pump - on my trial I’ve got a 5ft long 4” pipe in the pond with an air stone in it - if tapped off my 60lph air pump that feeds my moving bed and it’s moving a lot of water. I trialled a 100lph air pump just on the air lift and it was far too violent that it actually negatively impacted the flow. I think the 100lph on two air lifts and the fluid bed will be perfect - that’s 80watts total and I think il be getting somewhere between 30-40k litres per hour on the water circulation. My concern is that having just these returns will negatively impact the pond circulation.

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  4. #143
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hi Dave,I went for the " U " bend one far easier to do.
    I did make a chamber for the air on the up flow pipe but as you say an air stone is good.
    I then cut through the block wall for my return to just below water level,had to be carefull as pond is fiberglassd then fitted a screw on 4" tank connecter.
    I only had room for 1 T piece for the air to escape but works fine.
    John

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  6. #144
    How far horizontally could I get my airlift to move water after say 1500-1800mm 4inch ubend off the rdf ?

  7. #145
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I have about 2m of horizontal pipework (including a ball valve) between my air lift and my pond. Using 110mm/ 4" pipework.

    You could probably have a fair bit more if needed, but always best to keep it as short as possible to reduce flow loss.

    I think reducing the number of bends, and making them as gentle as possible, is the main thing to focus on for the pond return.

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    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

  8. #146
    Thanks my system I'd going to be really strange as my garden goes uphill so the pond is higher than the filter witch isn't a problem as my filter and pond water level can easly be matched do you think I'd be better off building a bog filter into the pond where the airlift can feed into or a slipway off the airlift I'm trying to think of the best way of doing it

  9. #147
    I’d say no to a bog filter - they can harbour lots of nasties!

  10. #148
    Yeh I know what you mean I'm just trying to think of a way of getting the water back into the pond as it will probably be a 5m run the water is gravity to a rdf then I was going to do a u ubend back to the pond but may not have enough to flow back into the pond would 2 3 inch lifts be better than 1 4 inch or even use 2 4 inch lifts I am going to run a bakkie of a pump I think that's on a 20000verio I'm having all the hear off a freind who is shutting down his pond the drum is a oase premium I think there rated at 25000 max and the pond is 21000l

  11. #149
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    One way you could do it is to have the u bend close to the pond where the water will return (although not too close, allow space for bends and valves if needed), rather than close to the filters.

    That way, when you dig the pond out. Just dig out a chamber into the side of the hole big enough to accommodate the u bend. That's essentially what I did. I even laid a bit of a concrete base in the side hole, just to ensure the airlift has a stable base, as once full of water it'll be fairly heavy.

    You could even run 2 x 4" pipes from the filters into the same u bend if you are worried about flow being restricted. Again that's what I did, although it's a bit over kill and not really necessary.

    Personally I think you'll be fine with all 4" pipework and a single u bend airlift moving water 5m from filter to pond.

    On mine it's about 1.5m between filter and air lift and 2m between air lift and pond return, albeit with 45° bends where possible. And I have to dial my air back to reduce the flow on the airlift.

    I can't see that an extra 1.5m of horizontal pipework would be much of a hindrance.







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    Last edited by Twhitenosugar; 07-05-2025 at 03:47 PM.
    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  13. #150
    That's perfect thankyou I don't know how to upload pics as I use the mobile version my pond has been a ballach to get up to ground level as iv had a lot of issues to contend with I have a freind who is a architect and another 2 that are skilled builders and all agree it's been a bit of a nightmare as we are on a corner house and it's at the top of the garden so digging out and building walls and footings and keeping them all meshed and locked together as we went along was a bit of a nightmare also didn't help that next door had built a shed on our vicrorian devididing wall with no footings so was very nervous digging up close building walls then concrete backfilling it . The downside is my pipe work for the 2 bottom drains is having to go in the corner of the pond internally I'm going to use valves like ukzero has on standpipes the plugs side now however is we're at floor hight so can now get the runs in for the pipes I'm planning on sending 15000 to the bakki shower off the 20k vario and then having 10000l off a airlift back to the pond the only trouble is I need to work out where to rut the 4 inch return hight wise some I see saying 5cm below waterline othere I have seen say at the waterline

    What hight is everyone using airlift set at would you say

    Hope this makes sense

  14. #151
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    On mobile download tapatalk app makes life loads easier (for me anyway )

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    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  16. #152
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    I know is this not the right thread and will possibly mess with your head but before you get to far to having a shower filter yes a lot of people have them but a lot of people have also got rid of them due to harbouring all the nasties and making it very hard and every expensive to get rid of parasites. . Am not saying showers are the devil but just some thing to think about .

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    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

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  18. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by noo View Post
    This thread has inspired me to try airlifts too.

    I want to use 110mm pipe with 2 meters length/height but I need to raise 100mm over the water line to get over the pond wall. I'd like to achieve 30,000 - 40,000 LPH in total perhaps with 2 or 3 airlifts each receiving 60 LPM of air. Possibly directly from a drum filter (drum has 3 x 110mm outlets, designed for 55,000 LPH flow) or perhaps airlifts from a 5000 litre holding tank directly after the drum filter.

    NickK-UK, would you be kind enough to calculate the flow rate difference if I used an internal air chamber (90mm pipe) inside the 110mm pipe? It's really difficult to step up to 160mm chamber due to the lack of fittings where I live.

    If the flow reduction is significant, I will try to import 160mm fittings and copy what everyone else is doing.

    Thanks in advance
    Just an update on mine - I know there are multiple airlift projects happening.

    I did some searches and self education thanks to the links and info provided. A wider uplift pipe diameter will provide much higher flow rates especially with a membrane disc diffuser for finer bubbles but as I've got to rise 100mm over water level to get over the pond wall, I'll stick to 110mm pipe. I can overcome the pipe restriction issue with a TEE joint that let's water in from the side above the diffuser. So no pipe expansion or constriction this way. An air pressure chamber produces considerably more flow than an airstone but both need occasional cleans. I'll make a flat drilled plate at bottom instead of side drilled chamber.

    Updates to come but I'm very slow due to time shortages

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  20. #154
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesomable View Post
    That's perfect thankyou I don't know how to upload pics as I use the mobile version my pond has been a ballach to get up to ground level as iv had a lot of issues to contend with I have a freind who is a architect and another 2 that are skilled builders and all agree it's been a bit of a nightmare as we are on a corner house and it's at the top of the garden so digging out and building walls and footings and keeping them all meshed and locked together as we went along was a bit of a nightmare also didn't help that next door had built a shed on our vicrorian devididing wall with no footings so was very nervous digging up close building walls then concrete backfilling it . The downside is my pipe work for the 2 bottom drains is having to go in the corner of the pond internally I'm going to use valves like ukzero has on standpipes the plugs side now however is we're at floor hight so can now get the runs in for the pipes I'm planning on sending 15000 to the bakki shower off the 20k vario and then having 10000l off a airlift back to the pond the only trouble is I need to work out where to rut the 4 inch return hight wise some I see saying 5cm below waterline othere I have seen say at the waterline

    What hight is everyone using airlift set at would you say

    Hope this makes sense
    The top of my pond return is about 15cm below the water level in the pond.

    Personally I'd say aim to have the top of the pond return somewhere close to the expected water level or just below it. It doesn't need to be exact.

    You can have the pond return sat just above the water level. But I wouldn't say this is ideal if building from scratch.

    I say this because, the constant movement of water will make it harder to see the fish. It'll create a constant splashing sound (which may not be a bad thing if that's what you want). The pipe will be visible, so could ruin a natural look pond or if you want it looking neat. Also, you will lose a bit of flow just because you are trying to lift the water above the natural water level.

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  21. #155
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hesomable View Post
    That's perfect thankyou I don't know how to upload pics as I use the mobile version my pond has been a ballach to get up to ground level as iv had a lot of issues to contend with I have a freind who is a architect and another 2 that are skilled builders and all agree it's been a bit of a nightmare as we are on a corner house and it's at the top of the garden so digging out and building walls and footings and keeping them all meshed and locked together as we went along was a bit of a nightmare also didn't help that next door had built a shed on our vicrorian devididing wall with no footings so was very nervous digging up close building walls then concrete backfilling it . The downside is my pipe work for the 2 bottom drains is having to go in the corner of the pond internally I'm going to use valves like ukzero has on standpipes the plugs side now however is we're at floor hight so can now get the runs in for the pipes I'm planning on sending 15000 to the bakki shower off the 20k vario and then having 10000l off a airlift back to the pond the only trouble is I need to work out where to rut the 4 inch return hight wise some I see saying 5cm below waterline othere I have seen say at the waterline

    What hight is everyone using airlift set at would you say

    Hope this makes sense
    Rather than have the BD pipes come up inside the pond, why don't you just box them off with breeze blocks, so they sit outside of the pond?

    I doubt you'd lose much pond volume if you did that. And if its all in pressure pipe, once you test them for leaks you hopefully won't ever need to be able to access them again.

    One thing I would suggest is to t off from your BD pipes and have purge lines on them both. That is the number 1 way to remove all the muck that settles out in the bottom drain pipes.

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    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

  22. #156
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noo View Post
    This thread has inspired me to try airlifts too.

    I want to use 110mm pipe with 2 meters length/height but I need to raise 100mm over the water line to get over the pond wall. I'd like to achieve 30,000 - 40,000 LPH in total perhaps with 2 or 3 airlifts each receiving 60 LPM of air. Possibly directly from a drum filter (drum has 3 x 110mm outlets, designed for 55,000 LPH flow) or perhaps airlifts from a 5000 litre holding tank directly after the drum filter.

    NickK-UK, would you be kind enough to calculate the flow rate difference if I used an internal air chamber (90mm pipe) inside the 110mm pipe? It's really difficult to step up to 160mm chamber due to the lack of fittings where I live.

    If the flow reduction is significant, I will try to import 160mm fittings and copy what everyone else is doing.

    Thanks in advance

    Hi I've just seen this request - sorry I didn't see this before!

    Probably worth drawing it so I can see what you're describing.


    It sounds like you want the incoming water to go down the 90mm in the centre of the 110mm pipe then pulled up via the 110mm?
    14000l airlifts 58W total: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

  23. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by NickK-UK View Post
    Hi I've just seen this request - sorry I didn't see this before!

    Probably worth drawing it so I can see what you're describing.


    It sounds like you want the incoming water to go down the 90mm in the centre of the 110mm pipe then pulled up via the 110mm?

    Hello Nick, thanks for chiming in.
    I wanted to copy the 5 or 6 inch external air compression chamber on 110mm uplifts like everyone else but it's not easy to source those parts where I am. See A of my diagram

    I am able to step down from 110mm to 90mm fittings easily with an internal air compression chamber but that would create a restriction of the 110mm pipe diameter with a reduced flow. See B of my diagram. What I was trying to determine is how much of a reduced flow.... ? The reduced cost, ease of parts and time saving may be worthwhile as I could add another airlift to make up the difference.

    However, I have settled on option C of my diagram using a 110mm TEE and putting the air diffuser below and out of the water path. So I can keep the 110mm pipe diameter and reduce costs and not have to import bits from across the world.


    AIRLIFT DIAGRAM.jpg

  24. #158
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noo View Post
    Hello Nick, thanks for chiming in.
    I wanted to copy the 5 or 6 inch external air compression chamber on 110mm uplifts like everyone else but it's not easy to source those parts where I am. See A of my diagram

    I am able to step down from 110mm to 90mm fittings easily with an internal air compression chamber but that would create a restriction of the 110mm pipe diameter with a reduced flow. See B of my diagram. What I was trying to determine is how much of a reduced flow.... ? The reduced cost, ease of parts and time saving may be worthwhile as I could add another airlift to make up the difference.

    However, I have settled on option C of my diagram using a 110mm TEE and putting the air diffuser below and out of the water path. So I can keep the 110mm pipe diameter and reduce costs and not have to import bits from across the world.


    AIRLIFT DIAGRAM.jpg
    On those diagrams - all would work but the right most (opt C) may get some bubbles travelling along the inlet pipe if there's any flow stoppage or during starting. Normally that would clear out with the flow but in the case of uneven piping that could result in an airlock preventing the flow starting.

    The option B would essentially have a 90mm pipe and it's a bit of a pain to make. If I couldn't do A then I'd probably look at C too. It's a simpler design and that means easier maintenance.
    14000l airlifts 58W total: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

  25. #159
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloDave View Post
    Interesting post about the 6” fittings as I have looked online here in the uk and can’t find anyone who does any of them - which has made me start thinking about just going for a ‘U’ bend solution with a simple air stone (glued into the air hose so I don’t have to retrieve it should it come off) in the long rising pipe.

    regarding air pump - on my trial I’ve got a 5ft long 4” pipe in the pond with an air stone in it - if tapped off my 60lph air pump that feeds my moving bed and it’s moving a lot of water. I trialled a 100lph air pump just on the air lift and it was far too violent that it actually negatively impacted the flow. I think the 100lph on two air lifts and the fluid bed will be perfect - that’s 80watts total and I think il be getting somewhere between 30-40k litres per hour on the water circulation. My concern is that having just these returns will negatively impact the pond circulation.

    Plastic pipe shop have 160mm offcuts. I ordered two and used those with 160-110mm soft boots which works for me because they sit in a water chamber.
    14000l airlifts 58W total: 2010 Chargoi, 2022 Doitsui/Tancho/Kujaku/Hi Utusri, 2023 Agasi/Doitsui

  26. #160
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    In option C would it not be better to have the air coming in where you have the water, and the water rising where you have the air.

    Easy enough to do.
    John

 

 
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