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Thread: Pond 2.0

  1. #61
    It does kinda take over your life!
    Planning for every eventuality is difficult as well because sods law dictates that as soon as you’ve built it you’ll think of either something you’ve missed or could have done differently, even if it’s only a minor bit of pipework.
    Pretty sure we’ve all been there, some of us more than once!


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  3. #62
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    It does kinda take over your life!
    Planning for every eventuality is difficult as well because sods law dictates that as soon as you’ve built it you’ll think of either something you’ve missed or could have done differently, even if it’s only a minor bit of pipework.
    Pretty sure we’ve all been there, some of us more than once!
    A pond is never finished its a constant work in progress, tweaks and changes all the time
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

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  5. #63
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    This is the design I was thinking about for the airlift - inbuilt protein skimmers too by lifting from the back it gives room to put in two T junctions. I'd also use two rubber boots so that the thing could be disassembled to access the baskets. I'd then look at plumbing in the foam lines into a small waste line (2") with a collector sump by the side of the chamber.


    IMG_7810.jpg

    Two 4" feeds in, gravity fed, coming in mid- level. Then have the water flow top left to bottom right with a diffuser that could be extended to ensure the bottom left isn't left without flow.

    One airlift I was thinking of putting in at a 45deg so cause the pond to cycle - the pump return for winter would do the same but as a mid water return.

    One interesting safety feature (stops the chamber emptying into the pond and causing stress on the joining wall) is that the air pump will only operate up to a limit in the water level after which the airlift won't be able to lift the water out of the chamber. The pump could, so I would still fit a water level sensor in it.

    What is not shown here is a 2.5"/63mm midwater return. It will take midway at the back and circulate to the 2.5" MWRs and the water fall (1-2"). The pump would have to be beside the chamber.

  6. #64
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Just looking at the time logistics

    Seq Task Basic info Pond build timing Equipment
    1 Dig-prep +1 day removing existing crap/bricks and marking out (inludes a cherry tree, bush, roses and Hawthorne cut back)
    2.1 Dig + 4 days pond + chamber + garage dig
    + 1 day drainage
    Mini digger
    2.2 Hardcore & lay pipes/rebar + 3 days - hardcore, pond pipes and midwater returns, conduits for water and electricity, water pipes, drainage pipes. includes overnight leak test. plate compactor
    + pipe delivery + BD and MWRs
    2.3 Ready covering & formers Create a covering for next part of build and formers for the concrete slab +1 day wood delivery
    3 Concrete Slab 24-48h remove formers/walk
    7 days 50% strength partial cure
    28 days 100% strength full cure
    <7 days spray concrete 5-10 daily for +50% strength
    pond cure (water pooled on top of concrete) 3d to 50% strength
    +10 days before first course of blocks is laid
    curing time overlaps then with block build as blocks courses increase load gets heavier.
    Concrete pre-mix pour
    4 Block build (18 courses) 24-48h @ 60% strength partial cure
    28 days 100% full cure
    4 courses every two days to maintain strength = 18/4 * 48h = + 9 days. Paddle mixer for mortar
    5 Fibreglass & Topcoat 2 weeks cure time for styrene Chamber + 2 days laying
    then Pond + 2 days laying
    = + 12 days including curing
    Fiberglass kit + rollers and gloves
    5.1 Build airlifts & pump returns Fit and build (using boots so removable) airlifts, add the diffuser and pump return piping +1 day - 1 week after the topcoat
    5.2 Coping stones Fast curing mortar +1 day (leaching risk?) this could be done 1 week after the topcoat
    G5 sealant to prevent mortar leaching lime into pond.
    paddle mixer for mortar
    6 Window fit + 48 hours cure + 2 days Window delivery
    sealant + manpower
    7 Spraydown 1/2 day spray down and draining the water + 1 day
    8 Water fill 13,200 l is going to take a while.. (at full run - 24h fill) + 5 days
    + dechorinator in a bottle..
    2.3 Fit electrics to Garage Conduit should already be laid as part of the dig.
    Get electrician in to wire up
    +5 days (assumed) Electrician
    9
    +2.3
    Filter move Moving drum and bio over to new position and plumbing +1 day
    10 Fish! rest of day catching and getting the fish acclimatised before release.
    11
    +5.2
    Outside render render the blockwork +1day +5 days curing. (can be in parallel from the water fill)
    12
    +11
    +6
    Paint render masonry paint the render work +1 day
    9 Insulate filter Insulate the drum & bio filter and returns inside the garage
    fit blocks to garage door to prevent draughts.
    +1 day (same as painting)
    13
    +10
    Anoxic media Build anoxic filter baskets and install +1 day

    This assumes the coping stones will seal the top of the fibreglass between the block and the stones.

    The hard core and dig could go hand in hand - using the digger to move the hard core and lower the plate compactor into the pit.

    Need to put in water fall and pump plumbing..

    I also figure I'll have to make a breathing tube for the chamber fibreglass to protect against fumes.. and wear a suit to protect. Glass walls and then use a long pole with the paddle roller screwed into it for the base of the chamber.

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  8. #65
    Make sure you can get materials, people are struggling to get sand even


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  10. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    Make sure you can get materials, people are struggling to get sand even
    Yep - I got that feeling when a concrete pour company didn't get back to me..

    I'm really thinking of getting deliveries before it's all started - the issue is the pour as their resources would be prioritised for larger projects..

    Fiberglass is becoming a 7 day lead time too.

    There's a press release by British Gypsum stating 3 days ago stating they're back to 80% capacity to catch up with demand and restock.

    Also with Covid there's an impact on the mines used for building stand and glass (vials for drugs being one important priority).

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  12. #67
    A plasterer mate swung by today and he was telling me that some unscrupulous so and so’s are trying to flog plaster for £50 a bag!!
    I need some K-Rend and apparently that’s like gold dust as well.


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  14. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    A plasterer mate swung by today and he was telling me that some unscrupulous so and so’s are trying to flog plaster for £50 a bag!!
    I need some K-Rend and apparently that’s like gold dust as well.


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    My rendering for outside of house came yesterday. And beads. And they masked all my stuff up. And it's all beaded now.
    The weather is forcast rain until monday.
    So looks like it will be on hold now. Until
    Monday.
    Price of render and colour was £1000.98.00. And beads and mastic £183.00
    So going by what your saying mate. I paid trade prices.
    It's all wrong using the pandemic to fleece people.
    Legallsed thieving.
    Fred

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  16. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    My rendering for outside of house came yesterday. And beads. And they masked all my stuff up. And it's all beaded now.
    The weather is forcast rain until monday.
    So looks like it will be on hold now. Until
    Monday.
    Price of render and colour was £1000.98.00. And beads and mastic £183.00
    So going by what your saying mate. I paid trade prices.
    It's all wrong using the pandemic to fleece people.
    Legallsed thieving.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    HMRC have a new 75% tax for companies that have posted large gains in profit during lockdown due to gauging.

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  18. #70
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Gazkoi's Avatar
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    A honest pound has more investment value than any ‘quick quid’ IMHO, be that in Koi or any other sector.

    Whilst I appreciate the economics of supply and demand the situation is very different currently and normal supply and demand ‘rules’ should not be applied (again IMHO) - this is profiteering...

    Those who are making a ‘quick quid’ off the current situation should firstly hang their head in shame and secondly think of a new job for when businesses reopen fully as their customer queues will be non existent. Customers have longer memories than this pandemic.

    Cheers

    Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    My rendering for outside of house came yesterday. And beads. And they masked all my stuff up. And it's all beaded now.
    The weather is forcast rain until monday.
    So looks like it will be on hold now. Until
    Monday.
    Price of render and colour was £1000.98.00. And beads and mastic £183.00
    So going by what your saying mate. I paid trade prices.
    It's all wrong using the pandemic to fleece people.
    Legallsed thieving.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Hobby and business gone but when you’re hooked you’re hooked.

    Always happy to help!!

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  20. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazkoi View Post
    A honest pound has more investment value than any ‘quick quid’ IMHO, be that in Koi or any other sector.

    Whilst I appreciate the economics of supply and demand the situation is very different currently and normal supply and demand ‘rules’ should not be applied (again IMHO) - this is profiteering...

    Those who are making a ‘quick quid’ off the current situation should firstly hang their head in shame and secondly think of a new job for when businesses reopen fully as their customer queues will be non existent. Customers have longer memories than this pandemic.

    Cheers

    Gaz
    Well said. I for one won t be using them places again where I bought my 2 inch pipe work.
    It was doubled in price
    Fred

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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Well said. I for one won t be using them places again where I bought my 2 inch pipe work.
    It was doubled in price
    Yay to being one of those not furloughed (a mate was for 10 weeks now). Not only missing the time but also all the supplies are now inflated and unavailable! I think the 3 out of 4 need additional holiday paid for by the 1 in 4 currently on furlough AND A TAX REBATE

    Anyways hopefully over the next few days I'll have a bill of materials for my build that I can start getting quotes on.. I'll post up the prices for laughs..

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  24. #73
    There’s a lot of people/companies making a serious amount of bucks out of this virus. Counterbalance by the normal people who are going to knackered for the foreseeable future.
    I’ve just managed to scrape by so far being self employed with minimal business over the last 3 months and Mrs BCC on reduced hours/pay but it’s worked out ok with us sharing looking after the little fella.
    Have realised that I’ll probably have to shut my office down and continue to work from home but will save a fortune in rent and all the other expenses that go along with that.
    Naff all anyone can do about it though.


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  26. #74
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Pricing up.. (this will change, and I have put in my calculations so if you want to follow)..

    This will be split into a number of sections - first is the volume and areas that are needed to work out the other materials.

    This looks a little complex for two reasons:
    a) The pond has a smaller chamber to act as an anoxic filter (converts ammonia/nitrates to nitrogen gas) reducing the need to change water. this saves on the water bill.
    b) The pond uses two 4" airlifts exiting under the pond surface to drive the water circulation - providing well over 30,000lph for about 58W of air pump power - no water pump is needed. In normal running this will be running with air to the bottom drain and bio. In winter a small air pump will run the bio and a dry pump will be running the mid water returns. An extension of this is to make a third chamber as a head chamber above the anoxic that the air lift lifts to - the water then flows out of the midwater returns however that's at a later date for winter.
    The flow rate is estimated at a max of 30,000lph with the bottom drain and skimmer lines giving an estimated rate of about 15,000lph each once biofilm appears.

    Water overflow is handled by the RDF waste chute or skimmer. Water top-up done manually but can be added later as the filter will have a mains water plumbing.

    Dimensions

    I'll be using 50mm wall insulation on the pond and I may switch to 2.5mm for the chamber (this may get an external insulation too). So I will calculate without the insulation present.

    Calculated as Size
    Pond Volume (ignoring insulation) using inside area 6.73 * 1.75 = 11,777 litres
    Pond Wall Wet area (ignoring insulation) 3.3+4.43+1.31+6.1+4.09
    - window 2.1*0.7
    19.23 - 1.47 =
    17.76 m2
    Pond Total Wet wall area (wall + floor, ignoring wall insulation) 17.76 + 6.73 = 24.49 m2
    Chamber Volume (ignoring insulation) using inside area 0.75 * 1.75 = 1,312 litres
    Chamber Wall Wet area (ignoring insulation) 1.1+1.67+0.71+1.11 =
    + pond wall @1.5 =
    4.59 m2
    6.09 m2
    Chamber Total Wet wall area (wall+ignoring wall insulation) 6.09+0.75 = 6.84 m2
    Total water volume (not including pipes or RDF but add bio 185l) 11777+1312+185= 13,274 m3
    Total wall area needing covering 17.76 + 6.09= 23.85 m2
    Total wet area (not including glass window) 24.49+6.84= 31.33 m2
    Pond depth 1.75m so with a 100mm block + 10mm mortar joint (110mm) 1.75 / 0.11 = 15.9
    1.75 / 0.15 = 11.67
    16 courses 100mm
    12 courses 140mm

    This is from the patio at human head height. The 2000x600 window space (although a ball/impact risk) makes the upper water level visible bar a couple of corners. About 70cm above ground and a meter below ground. Anoxic chamber at the back.
    pond 2.0-4.jpg

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  28. #75
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    Pipework

    Just pricing up the pipework... this is for a full 4" system from BD/skimmer through to the 4" return in the chamber under the pond. Plus 4" waste, 25mm water and 40mm electrical conduit for electrician to lay armour cable through.

    Imperial - this is the inside bore diameter, regardless of the thickness of wall. So a 4" pipe will always give you 4" bore but the outside diameter of the pipe changes with wall thickness (class rating). This makes it hard to mix and match connectors but you always get the same bore.
    Metric - this is the outside pipe diameter, regardless of the thickness of the wall. So a 110mm pipe vary in bore diameter based on the pipe class but the outside diameter will always stay 110mm making mixing and matching connectors easy.

    As an optimisation, I've also explored the cost using 110mm drainage pipe solution to compare costs (I could use 110mm pressure under the slab and 110mm drainage elsewhere). Note that I'm only using solvent weld and not push fit.
    *1 the issue with ball valves if they have an internal tongue in the pipe (class C and drainage have different internal diameters). They shouldn't if it's a solvent weld.
    *2 there's no concept of a solvent weld sweeping 90 (not 87).
    So given those issues, there's about £30 between them (having a 110mm BD is custom vs a standard 4") or you have the adaptor cost - almost the same.

    Wall thicknesses Wall thickness Bore diameter Outter diameter
    Drainage 110mm 3.2mm 103.6 110mm
    Pressure pipe C 110mm 4.2mm 102.8mm 110mm
    Pressure pipe C 4" 4.5mm 105.3mm 114.3mm

    Needed Unit cost Cost 110mm Drainage
    Unit cost
    110
    Drainage
    Cost
    Actual Ordered
    (110mm)
    Bottom Drain
    Aerated Bottom Drain 4" 1 100 100 120 120.00 4" with 110mm sleeve.
    4" Class C piping (7m needed) 3 30/3m 90 3x8.90 (drainage) 26.70 110mm PN10
    4" swept 90 2 30 60 60 (class C)* 60 110mm PN16
    4" Ball Valve 1 95 95 91 (class C)* 91.00
    4" Sweeping T to RDF 1 15 15 13.50 13.50
    1" Class C air piping (7m needed) 3 12.50/3m 37.50 37.50 37.50 1" PN10
    1" 90 bend 2 1.65 3.30 3.30 3.30 1" 90s
    1" pump connector 1 6.50 6.50 6.50 6.50
    bd-total 407.30
    Skimmer
    Skimmer 4" 1 140 140 150 (+adaptor) 150 4" with 110mm sleeve
    4" Class C piping 1 30 30 8.90 8.90 110mm PN10
    4" Sweeping 90 2 30 60 2x30 60 110mm PN16
    4" Ball Valve 1 95 95 91 91
    4" Sweeping T to RDF 1 15 15 13.50 13.50
    sk-total + VAT @20% 408.00
    Returns (to chamber - there's two 4" returns)
    4" Ball Valve 2 95 190 2x91 181
    4" Class C piping 6 30 180 6x8.90 53.40 110mm PN10
    4" Sweeping 90 6 30 180 6x30 180 110mm PN16
    4" 90" or sweeping? for final through wall 2 30 60 2x7.90 (elbow) 15.80
    ret-total + VAT @20% 732.00
    Air return for airlifts (chamber to pond)
    1" to drive both airlifts 2 12.50/3m 25 1" Class C
    1" 90 bends 2 1.65 3.30 1" elbow
    bd-air-total + VAR @20% 33.69
    Pumped 2" Mid water returns (chamber to pond)
    2" tranendental pond return 45degree 3 13 39
    2" Class C piping 4 18.2/3m 72.80 2" Class C
    2" Ball Valve 4 31.20 124.80 2" BV
    2" elbows - 90 degree 2" 90 elbow
    2" elbows - 45 degree
    mid-water return-total + VAT @20% 283.92
    Waste (submerged waste from garage to drain)
    110mm Waste pipe 4m (underground) 3 8 24
    Drain Grid for garage 1 20 20
    waste-total, (already includes VAT) 44.00 44
    Water supply
    HDPE Blue pipe 25mm 1 25/50m 25 MDPE (12Bar) Blue 25mm 50m
    Connects (there's £ on these but not stated here) Inserts & Fittings
    water-total (already includes VAT) 25 25
    Black (domestic electricial) Electrical Conduit pipe 40mm internal diameter from house to garage (already includes VAT) 1 46/25m 46 46
    Sub-Total 1935.91 £972.40

    The real quoted £972.40 does not include four 110mm ball valves(~400). So this is looking like £1500-1600.


    I'll reuse the waste pipe I am using for the temporary setup for the airlifts themselves. I also have a number of 4" 90 bend boots, 4" straight connector boots and 4" terminator boots from the temp setup.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  30. #76
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    Base and slab

    Rebar mesh, A142 is good enough for pond slabs, with dual meshing above and below - rebar ends 50mm from edge of slab to ensure encapsulation. (Manke Sanke post from 2013).

    Optimising, I noted a mistake in my original calculations - also that a guy has a pond with a 8" base with 1.5m2 depth.
    Sketchup shows the pond wall footing area is 2.41m2 plus 0.64m2 for the chamber = 3.05m2, then at 60cm = 1.82m3, then do the same for the inside area not the outside! Plus 6.73m2+0.75m2=7.48m2 at a depth of 20cm = 1.496m3.. a total of 3.316m3 and not 4.096m3!
    However I suspect I can do a 10" base full slab 2.14+0.64+6.73+0.75= 10.26m2 at a depth of 25.4cm is 2.6m3 of concrete with enough to spare out of a 3.0m3 load.

    Also check your C35 costs per m3 but also look at the need for a pump (ie a pipe) or a boom (the big thing that goes over the top of houses etc). For me, pump adds £300, boom adds £400 to the cost of the concrete.
    To put that in perspective.. 3m3 of concrete is 39x 25Kg concrete bags plus 72x 25Kg sharp sand plus 144x 25Kg aggregate and 528 litres of water. (1:2:4 ratio) just 4 bulk bags of aggregate alone is over 200, 100 for sand and concrete (well 200 if you buy the 25Kg bags!) plus the mixer and time.. £585 doesn't seem soooo bad.

    calculated needed unit cost cost
    MOT Type 1 subbase 1 (bulk) 47.94/bulk bag or
    2.72/40Kg
    47.94
    soft wood formers - 25mm x 150mm
    soft wood for stakes
    length of walls
    3 per m 30cm long
    18m
    17m
    2.65/m
    0.86/m
    47.70
    14.62
    Damp/Waterproof membrane under slab 1 41/4mx25m 41.00
    6mm A142 2x3.6 rebar mesh 4 17.94 71.76
    C35 Concrete slab pour (including wall footings) 3.0 m3 95/m3
    + piped @ 300
    285.00
    300.00
    Sub-total 808.02


    Blockwork


    Using the outside dimension area of walls so we get the interlocking covered - we'll be cutting blocks. Blocks are typically delivered per pallet load to cover a m2, however that m2 doesn't state if it's using the 440x100mm face or the 440x215mm face. Techsheet for mortar 25Kg bag gives yield of 1500 blocks, 10mm joint, 450mm x 225mm x 100mm. but doesn't tell you which sides are buttered..

    So back to calculating the number blocks and mortar the old fashioned way. Ive used the external lengths of each wall with this calculator: https://www.jewson.co.uk/material-calculators/brick (just be careful of the height first!) to get the number of blocks. Cost using buildbase prices.

    Based on using 100mm or 140mm..
    Approx mortar volume per block required,
    100mm: 0.010x0.215x0.440+0.010x0.215x100 = 0.0002365 + 0.0000215 = 0.0002580 m3
    140mm: 0.010x0.215x0.440+0.010x0.215x140 = 0.0002365 + 0.0000301 = 0.0002666 m3

    Pre-mixed motar (20Kg bag) states 0.0135m3 coverage. OR the other row using 25Kg bags of traditional concrete + sand 1:4 ratio. Eitherway I need a paddle mixer.
    Note - as the number of blocks is +10%, so by using 110% blocks in our mortar calc we automatically add +10% mortar safety margin.

    Calculated Needed Unit cost Cost
    440x215x110mm 7.3N dense concrete blocks, OR,
    440x215x140mm 7.3N dense concrete blocks
    539+10%
    396+10%
    593
    436
    1.15+VAT
    1.64+VAT
    818.34 <-
    858.05
    Pre-mixed Mortar (20Kg bags, including sand) 100mm
    140mm
    0.0002580*593=> 0.15299m3
    0.0002666*436=> 0.11624m3
    12
    9
    7.80 93.60
    70.2
    Traditional concrete + grey building sand (1m3 = 14C + 56S)
    100
    140
    14*0.15299= 3C and 3*4=12S
    14*0.11624= 2C and 2*4=8S
    3C+12S
    2C+8S
    4.70C 2.00S
    4.70C 2.00S
    38.10 <-
    25.40
    G4 sealant for mortar above fibreglass to stop lime leaching 1 34.99/2.5Kg 34.99
    10mm rebar for pins slab to block joint. 3 2.99/3m 9.00
    Sub-total 900.43


    Coping Stones
    I'll use the G4 sealant to seal any coping stone mortar. Also I should have enough mortar left over for securing the stones. The difficulty for me is that I don't have straight 90 corners so in the end I may have to go for a simpler coping stone that can be cut at angles and not look daft..

    Calculated Needed Unit cost cost
    Coping stone (chamfered edge 600x280x65) 9.12m/0.60= 16 21.00 336.00

    Render
    There's a couple of ways to add waterproofing to the concrete blocks so they are less impacted by a winter freeze without breaking.
    Tank Slurry = waterproof render is about £80 for 25kg
    Render + additive + masonry paint is another alternative.

    Calculated Needed Unit cost Cost
    Render
    Paint
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  32. #77
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    Fibre glass and insulation

    So for the fiberglass we need depends on which area. However the use will be slightly smaller due to the added insulation reducing the internal area for the fibre glass. The insulation we can use the same area to make an approximation. However it's good to have some additional so worth getting 10% more at least and possibly more for the fibreglass due to mistakes.

    I suspect to get a recommended pond fibreglasser in would be ~1600.

    calculated as Needed Unit cost Cost
    Celotex 2.4x1.2x50mm (2.88m2) 17.76+10%=> 19.53 / 2.88 = 7 16 112
    Celotex 2.4x1.2x25mm (2.88m2) 6.09+10%=> 6.70 / 2.88 = 3 12 (est) 36
    Tape to make joints smooth 75mm x 45m 1 8.20 8.20
    Fiberglass Kit (40m2 kit) (2x450g + tissue) 31.33 +10% so 40m2 1 650.49 650.49
    Microseal T20 primer 1 18 18
    Talc/epoxy putty for sealing pipes/skimmer + 5Kg resin 5Kg tack + 5Kg resin 1
    1
    10.95/5kg
    22.62/5Kg
    33.57
    Sub-total 858.26


    Window

    calculated needed unit cost cost
    2200x700mm 3.x glass 2m x 60cm visible but with 10cm either side and at the bottom 1 Est 600 600
    Sealant (Idealseal MS290) 10cm wide x 60cm long x2 + 10cm x 200cm long 6mm bead 6 4.30 25.80
    Sub-total 628.80

    Jump Guards
    * Jump guard pieces: https://www.fhbrundle.co.uk/products..._Stainless_316
    * Jump guard perspex/glass


    Digging - mini excavator hire
    Hire is easy - drivers licence, utility bill and £1000 deposit that's 'fully' refunded (diesel cost etc). I got four buckets with mine - small, med, large toothed and a 'grading' which is a smooth lipped large bucket. It takes two large buckets to fill a 120 litre wheel barrow from experience.
    0.8 Tonne hire £173/week £173
    Insurance @15% = 25.95
    Delivery £25 each way £50

    It's faster if you have somewhere to dump spoil easily. Using a wheel barrow works - two bucketloads, wheel and tip out. What takes time is if you are shovelling the spoil out of the barrow.

    Spoil removal (rough idea of estimates I had):

    13 tonne grab lorry £300 includes disposal of soil too You will need space to make a spoil heap. They can take 1 tone bags but the bags need to be close to the truck. Driver arrives and typically expects spoil heap to be ready and waiting.
    8 yard skip (8 tonnes max) £440 including VAT and disposal of soil too 8 tonnes max limit or the truck will not be able to lift.
    14 day period to fill the skip at your leisure.

    Unfortunately I don't have space for a spoil heap, nor the location for grabber access, nor do I have space to store the spoil more than about 10 bags. So I will use a skip as I can move the soil more easily.


    Still to add

    * protective rain/weather cover structs & sheeting for build.
    * water blade/feature
    * pipe insulation
    * RDF/Bio filter insulation
    * 4" rubber bung for water testing
    * HiBlow XP80 airpump (I'll look at possibly widening the output tube IF it's constricting) ~210
    * Air pipe and valves.
    * air pressure gauge (XP80 works best between two pressure values)
    * water fill meter
    * mini digger hire ~250 for a week
    * compactor hire ~80
    * price of a mortar paddle mixer (drill in a bucket style).
    * electrician line to garage.

    Totals

    Rough finger in the ball park - there's more to add.. and I hope some discount room if I ask nicely..

    % of budget
    digging (finalised) 248.95
    slab 808.02
    pipework 1935.91
    blockwork 900.94
    coping stones 336.00
    render
    fiberglass 858.26
    window 628.80
    Grand Total ... approx (including VAT) 5716.88

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  34. #78
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Gave the Mrs the good news this morning.. well.. "we agreed a budget of 3K with the filter you bought"... so I'll be reviewing the number blocks etc but simply looking at the materials the original estimate was essentially for blocks & fibreglass. However the window was her idea (It doesn't help when she's training for accountancy)

    I think given time she'll come around..

    In terms of "justifying" the cost.. here's a couple of quotes (source chatterkoi)

    From memory for my 3700 gal pond;
    The dig was £3000 but that included digging out my patio that I was having done at the same time. 118 ton in total they took out. So yours will probably be alot less than that.
    My fibre glassing was £1600 by kc in Barnsley.
    Rebar was £72. Ready mixed concreate was £510 for 3.5 cube including delivery.
    I got a bricky who had done a few ponds before to do all the brickwork and rendering which took him 3 days at £150 per day.
    100mm solid concete blocks x 504 were 90 pence per block which worked out to £454 + vat, 3 x ton of sand was £36 per ton + vat. 20 x bags of 25kg cement was £4.90 per bag + vat. Came to a total of £792 inc vat according to my old invoice in front of me.
    Looks like getting 90p/blocks and the cost increases faster with depth than it does with area size as the number of blocks increases faster due to the dimensions.

    That 20 bags of cement - for 500 blocks makes my estimate seem way out but I suspect this includes render. He's already got 3.5m3 delivered for the slab.

    just finishing mine off estimated £10000 for 5000 gallon nearer to £12000,but that included a new drum all new pipework ,new pumps etc etc. Did most of the work myself
    So for 2500g (11,360l) that's 6K.

    I know money isn't talked about.. but I hope my attempt to quantify all the costs will be of use for builders in the future.


    edit: I have the Mrs approval
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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  36. #79
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion NickK-UK's Avatar
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    Well.. Getting my dig-on, removing the slabs, brickwork and foundation concrete. Also investigating the fence post spurs foundations.

    IMG_7852.jpg
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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    Page 10 of this is interesting: https://www.aquariumplumbing.co.uk/pvcu_technical.pdf it shows a 110 flow rate being 300/min or 18,000lph. It also provides expansion rates too.


    Update: I've just been looking at air pipe diameters and came across this:
    compressed-air-pipeline-capacity.png

    Source: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...ne-d_1280.html

    The interesting bit about this diagram is it shows pressure, flow rate and pipe diameter. The pressure is important as all pond air pumps are relatively low pressure. The XP80 has an operational range of 5-25kPa (I've put in a blue box for the 3psi that pump operational range is capable of and the flow rate of 2.x scfm (~80lpm) and the required pressure for 1.75m being 0.2bar or 2.8psi - this happens to be 19kPa so in the range of the pump. At that depth the flow rate will be 60lpm according to HiBlow.
    So it looks like a 1" connection is the best to get a decent flow rate of 80lpm at depth. So although there will be air split and not all of it will go through the 1" pipes, it helps using a pipe with capacity for any pump uprating if needed.
    14000l, my mutts: Chargoi (2010), Doitsu (2022), Tancho (2022), Kujaku (2022), Hi Utusri (2022)

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