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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Bottom Drain Pipes do they NEED to be Pressure pipe or any solvent weld underground..

    I have the Kockney Koi Bottom Drain. I am Pricing up 110mm pipe to suit it and I can get solvent weld soil pipe at about £15 to £20 for 3meters plus a £10 90 degree bend so £30 all in up to an £84 ball valve.
    To do the tiny amount I need in pressure pipe is £35 for two 1m lengths, £14 straight connector, £15 90 deg bend and £8.50 for a 425mm short length. So about £75 to do a 1.5m run up to the ball valve.
    Not a mega issue for me on my short run, but Has any used the normal pipe successfully?
    Is there a problem with solvent weld proper underground drainage pipe?
    Pressure pipe seems overkill.



    Last edited by Alburglar; 16-02-2020 at 02:37 PM.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

  2. #2
    Wrongly or rightly I used underground soil pipe and not had any issue. £16 for 6 meters. It’s rated to be used 10 meters underground so in my opinion it will be fine


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  3. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Steve1984's Avatar
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    When I built my pond i used the black pipe, I was sold it as pressure pipe but when it was delivered as quite clearly not pressure. That being said it's been in the ground for over a year and pond filled up since around april last year with no issues

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  5. #4
    I used brown underground drainage pipe of my very first pond, providing you don’t drop anything on it that is really heavy it’ll be fine.
    You’ll hear the “better safe than sorry” recommendations but your pipes are not under any pressure from the water like a chilled water system would be so pressure pipe is a bit overkill in reality.

    It’s worth pricing up though to see what the difference is though, it’s dead easy to work with. Even I can do it.
    The big fittings can be expensive but if you’re using rubber boots for example then you won’t have to buy them anyway.

    Fwiw I did mine in pressure as I had the funds to do it but would happily use normal stuff if funds were an issue.



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  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    You’ll hear the “better safe than sorry” recommendations but your pipes are not under any pressure from the water like a chilled water system would be so pressure pipe is a bit overkill in reality.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I've read some arguments about this, well beyond my technical ability, that the pressure is immense as the whole weight of the pond is essentially pressured against the insides of the pipe. I couldn't get my head around the calculations, but the argument got so heated that mods were threatening banning people over it!

    But, I used the normal black solvent weld pipe because that's what the Koi shop sold me when I started out, and it's been totally fine.

    When I extended pond last year I closed the bottom drain valve to the Nexus leaving Nexus full of water, drained, rebuilt and re-filled pond with 12,000 litres of water. Obviously during this time an air lock had developed in the bottom drain pipe. When I re-opened the valve the air and water pressure was so great that water bubbled up out the top of the Nexus between 3' and 6' into the air, soaking me in the process.

    I swore a lot, and then wondered in amazement at how much pressure that black solvent weld pipe was capable of holding without leaking or bursting.

    Based on that, I think normal black solvent weld pipe is more than adequate, but do occasionally wish I'd used pressure pipe for no other reason than piece of mind.

  8. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    when I had rebuild I put pressure pipe in for bottom drain. and all my pipe work. as said above for peace of mind more then anything else. plus I had the funds. if I was to do it again I would probably do everything in black solvent weld pipe.
    as I believe that is strong enough. its what you can afford really. and peace of mind

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  10. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai AlanF's Avatar
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    No need for "pressure pipe". The pressures involved are minimal- imagine if you had a hosepipe full of water, put your thumb over the end and get someone to lift the other end up so its 6-8 foot above your hand. A child could hold it in, that is all the pressure your bottom drain is holding. 110 mm soil pipe is ideal for the job. I solvent welded joints from pond to valve and used push fit from valve to drum. No problem with the push fit - as long as joints blocked/held so they cant slide off again - as I found out one day.

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  12. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Agree with Alan above,mine is a k/koi drain with black solvent weld pipe to 4ins slide valve.
    When doing the base I put rebar above and below the underground pipe for strength and no probs for the last five yrs.

    Also used 4ins black push fit above ground, lubricated the rubbers with water and not grease so no probs there.
    John

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  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai samp09's Avatar
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    I was advised to use pressure pipe and so thats what I used with my build. I would probably use it again too for peace of mind, almost definitely overkill but its one less thing that will fail and therefore one less thing to ever think about. It was costly though!

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  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Yonsai sammy66's Avatar
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    Hi i used brown drainage pipe on both drains been all ok and black in the filter house

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  18. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai Scamp's Avatar
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    Like always ask a question many opposing answers! For me it was pressure pipe, as wanted absolutely no doubts once buried under concrete...

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  20. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone. I was leaning towards soil pipe so I'll stick with that.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

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  22. #13
    Do the need to be pressure?, probably not, ask yourself if you would rather the hassle and cost of digging everything back up again if there was a problem underground.

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  24. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Alburglar's Avatar
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    I totally understand why people use it (pressure pipe). But so far I haven't ever met anyone who's had an isuue (with solvent soil pipe) . And no one on here has had any issues...
    Yet...
    Last edited by Alburglar; 16-02-2020 at 07:14 PM.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

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  26. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Here you go.... A nice argument about the pressure a bottom drain pipe has to endure...

    https://www.koiforum.uk/koi-carp-cha...-pipework.html

    No idea what the truth is, only that people use this pipe without any problems.

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  28. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Not an expert on this but as I see it brown is the same as black,except black is UV ok but brown isnt so it has to be underground.

    Got to solvent weld underground and ok pushfit above ground is ok in my book.
    John

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  30. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Alburglar's Avatar
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    I would be using solvent weld everywhere that isnt a rubber boot.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

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  32. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    I've read some arguments about this, well beyond my technical ability, that the pressure is immense as the whole weight of the pond is essentially pressured against the insides of the pipe. I couldn't get my head around the calculations, but the argument got so heated that mods were threatening banning people over it!...…...

    Ignore them - anyone who says that hasn't grasped the basics of hydrostatic water pressure.

    The hydrostatic pressure of water increases by 0.41 psi for every foot depth so even a 6 foot deep pond will exert just less than 2.5 psi on the pipe walls. Even if we ignore the counteracting support from the surrounding soil, that is well within the pressure limits of any reputable manufacturer's soil pipe.

    The reason why a pressure pipe might be a preferable choice is its greater mechanical strength which will make it more resistant to damage due to ground movement. I would always use "pressure" pipe in clay. In other types of ground it's a judgement call as to whether the bottom drain pipe is safely encased in a concrete pond base and cannot be under strain or whether there is any other reason why settlement might put a strain on the pipe.

    Whichever pipe is used do not use push-fit fittings anywhere in underground pipework and only use rubber boot type fittings in places where they can easily be reached if the rubber perishes or splits.

    Always test underground pipes, before and after any backfilling with soil and especially before casting a concrete base. An easy way to pressure test bottom drain pipework is to bung the bottom drain and extend the riser pipe (where it comes out of the ground) as far as is practical above the finished pond water level. This should be at least 3 feet - it can be cut to length later. Fill the pipework with water until the riser pipe is full to overflowing and put a bucket over the top to prevent evaporation or rainfall affecting the level. Check it after several hours and, obviously, if the pipework has no leaks, the level won't fall. Better still, leave it full until the pond is finished so you can check it after every stage to make sure the pipework hasn't been damaged in the various construction processes.
    Last edited by Manky Sanke; 16-02-2020 at 08:48 PM.

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  34. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Alburglar's Avatar
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    Floplast rate there soil pipe systems to a 10 metre head height or rather 14.6 bar! That's a phenomenal amount of pressure! The 'pressure' pipe is only 10 or 16 bar depending on what one you buy. So that's that solved.
    Yes soil pipe is more than adequate.
    Ki Matsuba, Hikari Moyo, Beni Kikokuryu, Hariwake, 99% Shiro Bekko, Yotsujiro & Doitsu Aka Bekko.

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  36. #20
    I'd agree that soil pipe is more than adequate for the pressures involved if there won't be any ground movement but, sorry to say, a 10 metre head isn't 14.6 bar (14.6 atmospheres) its a little under 14.6 psi or one bar.

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