Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
TuffX Glass
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1

    Gravel/ pea shingle

    Hi every one , new to the koi game , so asking all you experts, i am digging my first pond , 4metres x 2 metres x 1 metre deep, going to put a firestone pond liner in it , should I put some gravel on floor or just leave the liner , also was going to put a nexus 210 or 220 filter on , is that good enough, will be looking for a second hand one , pump fed , with a 55 uv , as I have limited room , any advice would be appreciated

    kind regards
    chris



  2. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Durham
    Posts
    11,196
    Thanks / Likes
    21091
    Go deeper. No way at all of putting bottom drain in?. And gravel is a no no to me it's just asking for trouble giving all the crap and nasties some where to hide and grow

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  4. Thanks freddyboy, Cjew4, trapper Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjew4 View Post
    Hi every one , new to the koi game , so asking all you experts, i am digging my first pond , 4metres x 2 metres x 1 metre deep, going to put a firestone pond liner in it , should I put some gravel on floor or just leave the liner , also was going to put a nexus 210 or 220 filter on , is that good enough, will be looking for a second hand one , pump fed , with a 55 uv , as I have limited room , any advice would be appreciated

    kind regards
    chris
    Haha this was like my post three months ago! The experts will guide you the way. Great help the guys on here! Good luck mate Gravel/ pea shingle


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. Thanks freddyboy, Cjew4, RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjew4 View Post
    Hi every one , new to the koi game , so asking all you experts, i am digging my first pond , 4metres x 2 metres x 1 metre deep, going to put a firestone pond liner in it , should I put some gravel on floor or just leave the liner , also was going to put a nexus 210 or 220 filter on , is that good enough, will be looking for a second hand one , pump fed , with a 55 uv , as I have limited room , any advice would be appreciated

    kind regards
    chris
    Agree with AJ. Bottom drain. And go deeper. 4 feet minimum. And gravity feed to filter. Nexus 220 . A lot better. An in pond pump will mash the crap up. I would put a sieve before nexus. As machanical
    Clean first. With balance line. 2 pumps.
    Like this
    And welcome mate.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  8. Thanks Ajm, Cjew4, RS2OOO, Simon Fish Thanked / Liked this Post
  9. #5

    Duel gravity fed )v

    Thanks fo help , no gravel then , as my pond is in the ground, and the nexus will be above ground, would pump fed be the only option, so no bottom drain ? I am sorry very new to all this set up
    Last edited by Cjew4; 12-12-2019 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Spelt wrong

  10. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Durham
    Posts
    11,196
    Thanks / Likes
    21091
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjew4 View Post
    Thanks fo help , no gravel then , as my pond is in the ground, and the nexus will be above ground, would pump fed be the only option, so no bottom drain ? I am sorry very new to all this sett
    Filter pit would be a way around that mate bit more digging and soil to move but would greatly benefit

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  12. Thanks RS2OOO, Cjew4, freddyboy, Simon Fish Thanked / Liked this Post
  13. #7
    Thanks I will look in to it more

  14. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Durham
    Posts
    11,196
    Thanks / Likes
    21091
    My biggest regrets about my pond are

    I didn't research enough
    No bd (bottom drain)
    Not deep enough (4 foot but wish I had gone 5)

    . Please ask any questions there isn't a stupid question and the help on here is first rate. We've all made mistakes and most are on mrk 2 or 3 ponds haha

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  16. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjew4 View Post
    Thanks fo help , no gravel then , as my pond is in the ground, and the nexus will be above ground, would pump fed be the only option, so no bottom drain ? I am sorry very new to all this set up
    You can pump feed. Mate. Lots still do.
    But it isn't as good as bottom drain.
    You could put a retro bottom drain in. Draco drum builders do one.
    Dracodrum Bottom Drain pond filter solution
    Heres a photo.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  18. Thanks Ajm, Scamp Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Dartford
    Posts
    6,161
    Thanks / Likes
    3257
    Hello and welcome.
    Why not dig a pit next to your pond and install a sieve and a pump
    The pump will then be pumping clean water to your nexus which will mean easier cleaning
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

  20. Thanks Ajm, Cjew4, Simon Fish, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    1,603
    Thanks / Likes
    3288

    Gravel/ pea shingle

    I am also new here. Installed my pond this summer. I went for a bottom drain after the research I did. Also went 6ft deep. I was limited with available surface so went deeper. it was extra pre work but it was worth it. I also wanted 360 access to the pond so I dug the pit a bit further away. I used the firestone liner, 1mm it’s great quality.. make sure you use a decent underlay would be my advise.



    I went an extra sleeper higher in the end.

    6 months in and now just getting over new pond syndrome.

    But you can see the filter pit here, I really recommend putting in the extra hours now it will make for more enjoyment later Gravel/ pea shingle

    Already planning the next project. Gravel/ pea shingle it’s additive



    Just wish I got involved in the forum before / while in the build work as I’m sure I would have made better informed decisions. Guys here are great! I would definitely say bulk out your bio filters this is one of my downfalls. I was working to a budget and the equipment is far from reasonable. Sourced used where possible. Just make sure you give anything used a good clean with PP. I still have not sorted a solution for pond returns was thinking jets, but then I thought shower.. I’ll just waiting it out as it’s not mandatory right now.






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  22. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  23. #12

    Bottom drain

    Thanks very much for all the advice, that people are giving me, very much appreciated, it seems every one are pushing the bottom drain , being really new can I ask why a bottom drain is so much better, rather than just a pump going in to a nexus, I am also on a budget, ain’t we all so will go for second hand equipment, already bought a air pump off a member of this forum , the biggest problem I have and I really don’t understand, maybe I am thick, if I need to get the water from the bottom drain up in to the nexus which is 5 foot above the bottom of the pond, how do I do it , do I connect a pump, if so are there diagrams, or videos on utube which will give me ideas

    Thanks again
    chris

  24. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  25. #13
    That’s really nice,good job

  26. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  27. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Durham
    Posts
    11,196
    Thanks / Likes
    21091
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjew4 View Post
    Thanks very much for all the advice, that people are giving me, very much appreciated, it seems every one are pushing the bottom drain , being really new can I ask why a bottom drain is so much better, rather than just a pump going in to a nexus, I am also on a budget, ain’t we all so will go for second hand equipment, already bought a air pump off a member of this forum , the biggest problem I have and I really don’t understand, maybe I am thick, if I need to get the water from the bottom drain up in to the nexus which is 5 foot above the bottom of the pond, how do I do it , do I connect a pump, if so are there diagrams, or videos on utube which will give me ideas

    Thanks again
    chris
    Every one was new mate. The water surface has to be level with the water hight of the nexus. Water is lazy and will always find its level. Having it gravity like this means the nexus will catch all of the crap in bigger pieces making it easier for the filter. With in pond pumps they smash all the crap up in to fine tiny bits. And with having the the pump after the filter would open it off to use a shower at a later date if so desided

    Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  28. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  29. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Mikeh83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    1,603
    Thanks / Likes
    3288

    Gravel/ pea shingle

    I personally see a number of benefits for bottom drain. Aesthetic and functional.

    You don’t see pumps and pipes in the water.
    You more effectively clear the pond floor of waste
    The waste is removed from the pond intact so can be filtered out easier

    How gravity fed works.

    Imagine two baths next to each other with the plugs plumbed together if you fill bath 1 with water bath 2 will fill to the same level.. then if you pumped water from bath 2 to bath 1 the water will be continuously moving between the baths..

    Of cause the top of the baths need to be at the same level but could be meters apart.

    I hope this helps..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Mikeh83; 12-12-2019 at 09:32 PM.

  30. Thanks Cjew4, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  31. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Simon Fish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    357
    Thanks / Likes
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjew4 View Post
    I need to get the water from the bottom drain up in to the nexus which is 5 foot above the bottom of the pond
    Is it the top of the Nexus that's 5' up from pond bottom or the bottom of the nexus?
    If its top your only going down a foot to be level??
    If your talking about the bottom of the filter being 5' up from pond bottom then that's a fair strain on the pump.
    The flow would probably be halved,
    So your 8m3 pond would be good for a 8000lt pump for a one hour turnover, maybe 9 or 10k to allow for losses, that's on the level.

    I am pumped but regret not doing sufficient research first, if I get chance I want to go deeper, bigger and bottom drain.

  32. Thanks Ajm, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  33. #17
    It is five foot from bottom of pond to to bottom of nexus
    regards chris

  34. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  35. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    You also have to take into consideration bends 45s or 90s bends. Length of run.
    Size of pipe. Normally gravity fed is 4 inch.
    Pond returns 1/2 inch or 2 inch. 2 inch is better.
    You get friction loss. So if it was me. Buy
    Variable pumps. 15000 pumps. And you can alter the flow. Yourself. The photo I put up with the nexus sieve balance line.
    Has 2x pumps. One behind the sieve and one after the nexus. Remember one of them pumps has to flow faster then the other.

    You asked the question on what's the difference from pump fed to bottom drain

    Pump fed as said will only gather crap from about a foot around the pump. Also
    It mashes the crap up. And your water clarity will not be as good. And debris on the bottom will just lay there. Unless you pond vac the bottom all the time.

    Bottom drain gravity fed. How it works.
    If you put mid returns in the pond. And an air flow of the bottom drain. This keeps the water continually moving and it gets sucked to your filters. No hoovering and no debris. Less maintenance. The pond looks after its self.
    Your mid pond returns cause a current to move the water around and the air swirls it
    So eventually all sucked away.
    And also if you have a skimmer that takes
    Muck of the top lol
    Hope this helps in your thinking lol
    Fred



    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

  36. Thanks Mikeh83, Ajm Thanked / Liked this Post
  37. #19
    Thanks very much Fred you have been a great help

  38. Thanks Ajm Thanked / Liked this Post
  39. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    11,123
    Thanks / Likes
    17023
    Quote Originally Posted by Cjew4 View Post
    Thanks very much Fred you have been a great help
    anytime mate. if you buy a pump it will say 10000lph. there was a thread on here. where people tested there pumps. so I tested mine by bucket testing and timeing it on my watch.
    and everyone was the same. I had 2x time s aqua 8000lph pumps. and both where pumping only between 5000 to 6000lph so a loss of 3000lts ph.
    what I am getting at is don t believe what you read on the box. plus factors include what I mentioned earlier. so I ended up changing them for 2x15000lph. more cost.
    lots of people on here with a lot of knowledge. you will get your answers on here mate.
    fred

 

 

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:48 AM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.