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  1. #1

    Pond build dilemma

    Hi, I recently moved house and obviously when buying the house, in the back of my head I had already pictured where my pond was going to go! So I got the deck built with the idea to overlook the pond down below. I’ve been lurking on this forum in the background researching and getting ideas readying myself to start the build.

    However, I’ve just been checking the plans for the house and it appears I have a drain running directly underneath where I planned to build the pond. It’s going to be half dug and half raised but was told that if the water board ever needed access if something happened, they could potentially dig the pond up to get to their pipes. That coupled with building a pond above the pipes could cause a collapse of the pipes due to the weight of the pond.

    So I’m now at a point where I’m not totally sure where or how to build the pond... attaching some pics to show you. I’m open to ideas and suggestions as from my viewing there are some very creative people on here.

    I’m based in Hereford West Mids (ass end of nowhere) if anyone is near.

    Thanks,
    Chris


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    Last edited by Pricer8; 19-05-2018 at 01:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    i work in the water industry and it depends on what you find. Try a couple of trial holes.
    You may find the pipe is 1 metre deep or as much as 30 metres deep depending on the lay of the land.
    If the pipe is a gravity sewer/surface water pipe then make sure its in good condition and not been broken by roots.
    These pipes can be relined without any need to deep them up
    If the pipe is a pressurised rising main then i'd stay clear. I've seen someones pond turned inside out when a pipe burst underneath the liner

    Another option if you do find a pipe is to divert it around the site where you want the pond.
    Use a 45 right ...45 left then after the pond a 45 left then a 45 right to reconnect to the original pipe.
    Dont use 90 bends as this will slow the water down
    Hope this helps

    Can you put a picture of the plans where the pipe is on here
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Scotts koi's Avatar
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    I had the same problem I had 2 pay seven Trent 4 the privlage of building on my garden main drain no 1 new it was there told 7trent even thay didn't no and billed me 4 telling them so lifters my pond a bit and coni over the lot!! Look on my build thread u will see it

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  6. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Scotts koi View Post
    I had the same problem I had 2 pay seven Trent 4 the privlage of building on my garden main drain no 1 new it was there told 7trent even thay didn't no and billed me 4 telling them so lifters my pond a bit and coni over the lot!! Look on my build thread u will see it
    Thanks Scott! Will have a read. Pond build dilemma


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  7. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1671 View Post
    i work in the water industry and it depends on what you find. Try a couple of trial holes.
    You may find the pipe is 1 metre deep or as much as 30 metres deep depending on the lay of the land.
    If the pipe is a gravity sewer/surface water pipe then make sure its in good condition and not been broken by roots.
    These pipes can be relined without any need to deep them up
    If the pipe is a pressurised rising main then i'd stay clear. I've seen someones pond turned inside out when a pipe burst underneath the liner

    Another option if you do find a pipe is to divert it around the site where you want the pond.
    Use a 45 right ...45 left then after the pond a 45 left then a 45 right to reconnect to the original pipe.
    Dont use 90 bends as this will slow the water down
    Hope this helps

    Can you put a picture of the plans where the pipe is on here
    Circled it in Grey mate, not sure if this is what you mean Pond build dilemma thanks so much for your input.




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  8. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    Looks to be a domestic sewer pipe.

    VC means vitrified clay and 150 diameter.

    Its also running away from each property not towards them.

    Water company records are notoriously inaccurate - partly because they pay peanuts to the contractors who manage them and because the records have been poor for years they never get any better. (worked for a contractor for a few years).

    What the plans don't show you is how deep they are. Or the lay of the land.

    If you are on relatively flat land then my bet would be that those pipes are not that deep, as you appear to be quite close to the start of the run.

    I'd wander next door and lift the lid on manhole 24 (mh24 on the plan) and see how deep it is. That will pretty much be how deep your pipe is. You will also be able to see which direction the pipes enter the manhole and check if the direction matches whats on the plan. Even a few degrees different could mean the pipe isn't where you think it is on your land. Looks like you have a straight run between mh 25 and mh24, so you could find each of them and simply draw a line between them. More likely than not the pipe will be straight (ish) though even that is not a guarantee. Best way to be sure is to put a camera down it with a surface detector so you can identify exactly where it passes across your land.

    Andy is right if the pipe is deep enough you could build over it as there is no pressure and if the clay does fail it can be relined from each end not dug up. On the other hand clay is more likely to be damaged or collapse than plastic - depending on the surrounding ground.


    EDIT: I should add that your own drain pipe from your house and gutters should flow to and connect with that pipe.This drawing only shows the Severn Trent Assets, your drains are yours. Again lift the lids on your own access points and check the depths and where you run your own drains to. This will give you an idea of location of your own drains as well as how deep they are.

    Technically your own pipes 'should' join the severn trent asset at a point that can be accessed such as a manhole or at least a rodding point. However I wouldn't be surprised if it just joins in a Y without surface access. There's a difference between 'should' and 'must' and each water company has different rules and applies them to different levels of strictness. I never dealt with Severn Trent so I can't comment on them specifically... maybe Andy did?
    Last edited by Brandlin; 21-05-2018 at 08:08 PM.

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  10. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Your photo is exactly what i wanted.
    Would it be possible to lift the manhole covers in the gardens of house numbers 3 and 6
    Looking down both of them will give you an idea of the depth of the pipe in your garden.
    With manholes on the pipe work means its not a pressurised pipe
    To establish if the pipe is sewer or surface water, make a big dye mixture of PP and pour it down your toilet and flush whilst someone is looking down the drain in garden 3
    The pipe is 150mm or 6" round
    Tomorrow I'll try to see if our Sewer Survey Camera Crew has your street on his computer and i may be able to get some more info
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  12. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Our company deals with Severn Trent and get called out to all of their sewer emergencies
    There wont be a big flow in the pipe as it looks like house number 6 has the head of run man hole
    Houses 7 6 5 4 look to be the only houses on that pipe
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  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    Good shout on the dye Andy

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  16. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    OOOPs

    Just noticed the plan is from welsh water. Someone else mentioned severn trent in their reply and i assumed this was severnt trent too.

    My apologies


    Andy - note the legend also says that the red pipe is either sewerage or combined - i can't quite tell from the quality of the photograph. Foul only appears to be green.

  17. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1671 View Post
    Your photo is exactly what i wanted.
    Would it be possible to lift the manhole covers in the gardens of house numbers 3 and 6
    Looking down both of them will give you an idea of the depth of the pipe in your garden.
    With manholes on the pipe work means its not a pressurised pipe
    To establish if the pipe is sewer or surface water, make a big dye mixture of PP and pour it down your toilet and flush whilst someone is looking down the drain in garden 3
    The pipe is 150mm or 6" round
    Tomorrow I'll try to see if our Sewer Survey Camera Crew has your street on his computer and i may be able to get some more info
    Ok so I lifted the manhole and this is what I found... I was praying the whole time that no one was dropping a deuce as I took these Pond build dilemma




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  19. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the pipe in your garden is going to be approx the same depth as the turning chamber manhole in the garden of number 3.
    My friend who had the same problem as you dug down either side of the sewer pipe and basically had a ridge running down the centre of the pond. He encased the pipe in concrete to help keep the pipe intact and to give it strength. It did mean he needed two pumps in his pond to remove sediment from both parts of the pond.
    Another option is to dig down trial holes where you want the pond and maybe dig to the further side of the pipe so you dont have a ridge and extent your decking upto the pond
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  20. #13
    So after contemplating where to put my pond after the Sewage drains put a spanner in the works, i have had a massive stroke of fortune. There is a lane next to my house and they are renovating the cottage there. He needed access so proposed if he rips out my hedge and disposes of it, he will also erect the new fence if I pay for materials. He gains enough access to get his materials delivered and I get rid of a hedge I didn’t want... however, I noticed he had a mini digger ripping it out. I chanced my arm and asked if he fancied digging a pond out whilst he is at! Not only did he agree, he also wanted all the soil out of it for his place!!! So 2 days later, the hole is dug (I did have to wheelbarrow all the soil to his place) but a small price to pay. Here is some pictures of my hole. It’s 12ft x 10ft and will be 4.5ft deep once I’ve built up.

    I need some advice now on putting a bottom drain in and should I gravity feed it? I’m currently running an Oase Screenmatic pump fed but considering the Proficlear drum as I work away a lot.

    Appreciate your thoughts.

    Chris




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  21. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    Its nice when things go your way, you have done really well there, if you work away like I do then you need a drum, I used to work away for 4 to 5 weeks at a time, now its just 1 or 2 weeks, I couldn't manage without a drum, its been a life saver, go for a drum and bottom drain to make your life easier, not having a bottom drain on my last pond was my biggest mistake
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  22. #15
    It’s been a long time since I posted but thought I would share what I’ve been up to. Hasn’t gone all the way I wanted so have adapted and adjusted as needed. The first block work done I wasnt happy with the size so put a ground level extension for a shallow area and a place for some plants. Still need to fit the skimmer and where to put the skimmer return. (through block work or waterfall/blade) will have a blade return on the raised area of block work.f9986c10-e835-4f89-95c3-2e204c92b287.jpge590a9c5-7f04-425d-bbd7-4932bc2a9ed1.jpge0eedfe3-ffa9-456f-89f9-cfa3e1476ca3.jpg516ae183-7b8c-49b3-953c-d9bf6f07489a.jpgd86d9f26-ccc4-432b-88f8-a92c2be82db4.jpg92C64083-3F36-4CDF-82BF-AD679B8BBF32.jpgIMG_9355.jpg82FA4E6D-093D-41AB-A2B2-453EC82537DE.jpgIMG_9428.jpg860bf354-9b46-406c-bae9-10a6e702628d.jpg


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  24. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Looks good mate

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  26. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Looks a nice neat job,glad everything worked out for you.
    John

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  28. #18
    I need some advice. I need to fit the skimmer before the fibreglassing starts. Do you have it set slightly protruding the block work so you can fit the facia or does it go flush? Thanks in advance.
    Chris


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  30. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai Steve1984's Avatar
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    Mine went flush to the blockwork, the bloke who do my fibreglass didn't use the facier he just fiberglassed into the skimmer

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  32. #20
    It’s been a long time (a year) since I put an update on here. Finally got it all in situ and got the pond glassed last year. Just a few aesthetics left to do. I’ve got a 4” aerated bottom drain into a Nexus 330, through a Aqua Forte DM- Vario 20,000 pump and EA 110v UV to a water blade. Skimmer is pumped through a EA Bead 20 filter and another EA 110v UV. Return is currently a pipe and thinking about whether to add a bakki shower on that end too.
    However I am around a year in and still refining and have been looking at the drop in Draco which looks a good bit of kit but I have some questions on set up. Currently the waste I have been putting over the garden as the drains are at the top of the house. For the Draco, does it pump water to waste or is it gravity fed? Also how do you have it connected to the water mains? As I would need to run a pipe down to it as well so trying to get it all planned out. Appreciate your feedback.
    Thanks,
    Chris



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