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  1. #1

    Kujaku development

    Hey guys,
    Iíve got this nisai kujaku whose matsuba seems to be disappeared overtime. Only some black patches left in places.
    Is this normal? Any thoughts?

    1500 gal pond, 4" BD, DIY Drum, MB, 40w UV, Baki Shower, 70l + 35l air pump.
    10 Koi

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion samp09's Avatar
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    Oct 2019
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    I know with some koi it can depend on the environment they are kept in, for example, my goshiki when in a temp blue pool for a week or so went much paler, then once back in the black pond it went black again, but not sure on the changes in Kujaku as I haven't looked too much into the variety tbh

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Ph can have a big effect on colour .

    What could be worth a try is https://aurorakoi.co.uk/product/bactoplus-fresh-psb/ seen some good results not sure it'll work for you but ask gaz he might be able to advise better

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"


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  6. #4
    Maybe that’s the case as the changes began shortly after I transferred the koi from quarantine to the pond (however both are with black liner and with similar PH) ��*♂️
    The other thing is I have 3 kujaku and one of them is completely different (see the photo) and didn’t loose the matsuba pattern. But the other two did, mystery. ��
    1500 gal pond, 4" BD, DIY Drum, MB, 40w UV, Baki Shower, 70l + 35l air pump.
    10 Koi

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Twhitenosugar's Avatar
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    I suspect the quality of the matsuba effect is down to genetics, rather than water quality (as much as it'd be good it was the latter).

    I bought two kujakus from queni koi who were the same age and from the same breeder (Marusei).

    They've been raised in the same pond. As they've grown up one has developed well with the matsuba effect nicely balanced across its back. The other has lost a lot of the matsuba effect, it's only there in patches and has a few odd scales where its really dark, which looks more like a shimmy.

    So I believe the chances are, no matter what you do it won't improve if the genetics aren't quite right for the individual fish.

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    13,000L fibreglassed raised pond with window

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  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    It's quite an interesting change. At first it looked like GOSHIKI, then it became KUJAKU with more light, and now it even looks like YAMATONISHIKI with some of the SUMI condensed.
    It would be most helpful if we could unravel the reasons for this and find out who bred it and for what purpose.

    Probably most of the crosses between already fixed purebred KUJAKU will be KUJAKU.
    2nd crop Kujaku - 1st culling

    Also, if you cross GOSHIKI with other GOSHIKI, which seems to be the trend in recent years, you will almost always get KOHAKU or GOSHIKI.

    However, if you try to develop a breed of these species further, you can produce different types of fry by crossing different tendencies.
    In such cases, it is important to know what the original parents were like and why they were bred. In such cases, it may be the blood of the original parents, or even the grandparents' blood.
    ※These are some examples of hybrid combinations of fry that can appear in many different types.
    Since your KOI has undergone so many cross-breed changes, it is quite probable that it has a little bit of the blood of a different breed. It is easy to imagine.
    Furthermore, who bred the KOI and for what purpose, and was it the ideal image of the KOI, or was it an unintentional by-product? I am also interested in this question.

    It's a long story, but in the end it's hard to say without having the opportunity to know the tendencies of the KOI's OYAGOI (parent koi) and their many brothers and sisters.
    If you try to breed your own Koi to find out the secrets and tips, you will find out a lot of things.

    It seems that not only in Japan, but also in your country, many people are trying to breed with different intentions.
    My Koi Breeding Project - Part 40 - Kujaku 'Stock Take' and 5000 Goshiki fry moved outside
    A mix of high quality Yoshikigoi Tosai 10 09 2019
    Some very interesting Kujaku that are continuing their journey here at Byer Koi Farm
    1 month Kujaku
    See you soon!
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 15-09-2021 at 04:17 PM.

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  12. #7
    Thank you Naoki for your thoughts, much appreciated. Very interesting, I haven't thought about cross breed, very likely to be the case here.The seller stated that this Kujaku came from Aoki breeder but unfortunately I don't know any info on parents.
    Any chance it can still develop matsuba pattern?

    Many Thanks!
    1500 gal pond, 4" BD, DIY Drum, MB, 40w UV, Baki Shower, 70l + 35l air pump.
    10 Koi

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  14. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Under normal circumstances, once MATSUBA appears on the surface, it should not disappear.
    However, there is apparently a new trend in recent years: the GINGA (銀河 = Galaxy) variety.
    Even in the period that I know of, there were rare instances of KOI with a similar texture, but in recent years someone has fixed it and it seems to have become an independent variety.
    It seems to be characterized by MATSUBA at first, and later by a more metallic element covering the top.

    This appears to be a midway stage where the metal is gradually coming to the surface.
    This is not a KUJYAKU, but a MATSUBA pattern hidden underneath by a more intense metal.
    Is this a finished state where the metallic elements have completely covered the MATSUBA pattern?

    In any case I have no experience of keeping this type of KOI myself, nor have I found any videos showing the fry or the culling process. So I can't say anything definitively, and it's only a very rough guess, but if your KUJYAKU-like KOI MASTUBA proves that GINGA blood has been added to the mix, it could be a process of increasing metallic elements in the future. That's my best guess at the moment.

    Either way, we'll be looking forward to hearing from you after the fact!
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 22-09-2021 at 11:13 PM.

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  16. #9
    Thanks Naoki,
    It seems like my kujaku-like koi started to develop some more matsuba in random scales so will keep this thread updated.
    I want to see if this koi will transform in colder water during the winter.
    1500 gal pond, 4" BD, DIY Drum, MB, 40w UV, Baki Shower, 70l + 35l air pump.
    10 Koi

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