Thread: Koi deaths, help!

Hi all, I recently swapped to an Eazy pod and have been struggling a little with nitrites (only at 0.25 max) which I'm thinking may have stressed the fish, I thought it may have caused the deaths but now thinking it just stressed them.


Anyway, 3 of my koi have died in the last week, all over 10 years old. They were inactive for a day or two, then developed white spots then died.


Now I have another with same symptoms, is this actually white spot disease? I have treated with medifin which is a formeldahyde/malachite mix, is that appropriate?

20240805_083515~2.jpg


Thanks

Two more deaths overnight ☹️

That's not whitespot in the photo - although that doesn't mean there is no white spot.

First impressions are fungal or bacterial. But this could be secondary infections from parasites.

A water quality issue is usually the pre-cursor to such an outbreak, so the filter change could be the source, although a short term nitrite spike alone to 0.25 is highly unlikely to be the direct cause in an otherwise healthy pond. There was almost definitely more to it.

What were the full list of parameters prior to the filter change and after the filter change, including pH, KH, Ammonia, nitrite and nitrates (in that order of priority)?

Alongside getting water parameters back to perfect, a skin scrape and review under microscope is needed at this stage.

Thanks for your replies.

Parameters are PH 8, KH 13, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0.25 (no nitrate result avail)

No change before and after filter install as of yet.

I managed to find a store that did a scope for me today, three healthy looking fish were scraped, all completely clear. I scraped one of the fish that died last night and that had gill flukes and trichodina.

With this in mind, I think I should just repeat the malachite/formedahyde mix twice more at 6 day intervals, sound good?

Why dont you put your location.Someone might help.If you were local to me i would nip round.It may save fish

Originally Posted by 6044jason

Thanks for your replies.

Parameters are PH 8, KH 13, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 0.25 (no nitrate result avail)

No change before and after filter install as of yet.

I managed to find a store that did a scope for me today, three healthy looking fish were scraped, all completely clear. I scraped one of the fish that died last night and that had gill flukes and trichodina.

With this in mind, I think I should just repeat the malachite/formedahyde mix twice more at 6 day intervals, sound good?

On the assumption your findings from the scrapes are accurate, as are your water readings, then yes that is the correct course of action.

The FMG mix will not treat for the flukes, so once the course of treatment for the Trichodina has been completed and the Koi have had a couple of weeks to recover from it, you'll then need to treat with a Fluke medication.

Neither Trich or Flukes are fast killers unless populations are huge over a period of months, so there could still be more at play, nonetheless both these critters need dealing with, Trich first, then Flukes.

Originally Posted by RS2OOO

That's not whitespot in the photo - although that doesn't mean there is no white spot.

First impressions are fungal or bacterial. But this could be secondary infections from parasites.

A water quality issue is usually the pre-cursor to such an outbreak, so the filter change could be the source, although a short term nitrite spike alone to 0.25 is highly unlikely to be the direct cause in an otherwise healthy pond. There was almost definitely more to it.

What were the full list of parameters prior to the filter change and after the filter change, including pH, KH, Ammonia, nitrite and nitrates (in that order of priority)?

Alongside getting water parameters back to perfect, a skin scrape and review under microscope is needed at this stage.

[mention]RS2OOO [/mention] - could this be a repeat of your historic nightmare with plastic media from 2018 or 2019 or whenever it was? I seem to remember the manufacturer had you doing all sorts like taking media out etc? Then matured media you added dies after a couple of days?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I treated twice with fmg and can no longer see any trich.

I've had three more deaths following the same pattern and when I scrape them they are COVERED in flukes, quantities I have never seen before, hopefully the below video link works for you to see.

https://youtu.be/sAC0dvkhPI8?si=0WKbFnPZWButKhYI

I took the advice from my local fish store and treated for last two days with PP alongside using or ORP meter to ensure an accurate dose, I kept it at 440 (pink) for four hours. One further fish is dying today and I scraped it, the PP had no effect at all, it is covered.

I have fluke solve arriving tonight which is going in as soon as it comes, if that doesn't work I am totally lost.

Appreciate your help.

Originally Posted by Shropshire_Tom

[mention]RS2OOO [/mention] - could this be a repeat of your historic nightmare with plastic media from 2018 or 2019 or whenever it was? I seem to remember the manufacturer had you doing all sorts like taking media out etc? Then matured media you added dies after a couple of days?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who knows!

I never really understood the whole thing about reducing media to increase bacteria colonisation.

At the end of the day bacteria are everywhere, including pond walls and floors etc.

My eventual conclusion was that it just takes ages to properly mature plastic media.

My current set up has both plastic moving bed and a static jap matting bay, and it matured rapidly and has remained absolutely bullet proof ever since.

From the OPs issues I'd say it is quite likely a water quality issue has been the trigger.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

I scraped the dead one and found two more things I can't identify, any ideas?

Mystery 1
https://youtube.com/shorts/Ua3fAAVbp...COMhwQNmbFeoTO

Mystery 2
https://youtube.com/shorts/0uszWMtUD...6YY68hKB13JKd4

From digging further do you agree mystery 2 is Chilodonella?

I can't find what mystery 1 could be.

No.1 is difficult to identify with only half of it visible. It is either normal pondlife, or Tetrahymena which can often be found on dead fish.

No.2 is almost definitely Chilodonella. Your pond will need treating for that sooner rather than later.

Ok, so I've got trich (although none seen on recent scrapes), Chilodonella & masses of flukes.

Bearing in mind I've treated with fluke solve today, should I do a massive water change and start FMG tomorrow then in a couple of weeks come back to fluke solve?

Chilodonella is serious and should be treated before treating for Flukes.

Whatever you use for Chilo will also take out the Trich. FMG will kill both.

So the saga continues.

I have only had one more death, most of flukes are gone and have found no trich or chilo which is good.

I have however found this on all fish, tiny things I can't even see at 400x but I still think it could be costia, bottom right corner of the video, any ideas?

Anyway, I have kusuri full strength fmg arriving today which will hopefully be the last treatment.

https://youtu.be/lJRJcRw8rU8

The stuff that's easy to see drifting around and vibrating doesn't appear to be anything other than debris and cells.

But if you are referring to the tiny things zooming around that you can only see on a big screen, I've no idea what that is, never seen anything move that fast on a slide and I even wondered if it was tricks of the light.

What equipment are you using and at what magnification in the video?



Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

Yep the bits drifting around is debris for sure, it's hard to capture it but if I ensure the scope is perfectly still, the other things are 100% something alive darting around and vibrating, there are thousands of them. It's a digital scope so It captures video, this was at x400.