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  1. #1

    Koi not eating, lethargic and dying

    I bought 6 new koi about 3 inches long at the start of April to join my other 12 year old koi (6), carp and goldfish. After about 2 weeks my original koi stopped feeding and became lethargic and shy and have been like that ever since. The new koi, carp and goldfish are fine and feeding and growing. It's just my original koi that have stopped feeding etc.
    About 2 weeks ago one of them started turning on its side and died this week.
    It may be a coincidence that it started when I got the new koi but I'm not sure.
    The water quality is good (nh3 0.02mgl, NO2 0.04mgl, NO3 16mgl) and I have had no problems with the koi health before this.
    They look OK but are not feeding etc. I cannot see any obvious parasites or anything like that.
    Does anyone have any advice please as I'm not sure what to do and want them to get better.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    If you put your location somebody local may help

  3. #3
    OK, thanks, I'm in Norfolk

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    If you don’t own a microscope find somebody who does you need a scrape asap to find out what’s going on

  5. #5
    OK will try that thank you

  6. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    If you were close by i would help bud.If you put your exact location chances are there will be a forum member close by

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion samp09's Avatar
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    depending on where you are in Norfolk there are a few koi dealers in the general area who may be able to help. You have Selective koi sales in Norwich and I think coastal koi are in kings Lynn (might be wrong) but also there is keepers koi in Framlingham in Suffolk so again depending where you are someone may be local to help

  8. #8
    OK, thank you all. I will try speaking to one of them.

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  10. #9
    Junior Member Rank = Fry TriMan's Avatar
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    @Elton did you find out what was going on? I have almost the same issue and wondered if you have found an answer.

    I moved my fish into a new pond about 6 weeks ago - 2 koi that are 17 years old and 18 assorted goldfish. They seemed to be thriving and the goldfish spawned. Thinking all was good, in the last couple of weeks I have added 4 tosai koi, about 6 inches. Now I have noticed that one of the old koi stays at the bottom in the most secluded corner and won't feed. The other old koi mostly keeps it company but will swim around from time to time and feeds a bit. Now I look back I think the behaviour was changing before I added the new fish (which had been quarantined by the supplier) so I don't think this is connected.

    I did try to catch the fish to check it over, but it is still really fast and seems instantly spooked. After trying to catch it, it spent a while near the surface but tight under a floating planter. At least I could get more of a look at it and there is nothing obviously wrong. It seems really scared. It is now back at the bottom.

    All the other fish remain lively and hungry. The water has tested well throughout. Any ideas? Is it worth adding a parasite/anti-bacterial treatment just on the off chance this is the issue?

    Also, how do you catch a koi in a large pond when it does not want to be caught?!

    I am in North West Kent. Thanks for any help.

  11. #10
    Hi, yes found out the problem in the end. There wasn't enough dissolved oxygen in the water even though there wasn't a problem over the last 10 years or so. I have a good waterfall return on the filter which had been fine up until this year when I added the new fish. Seems like it reached tipping point with the addition of the new fish. I visited Selective Koi Sales in Norfolk and they were really good and set me right. I bought x2 airpumps and good airstones and the results were almost instant. The fish perked up straight away. Unfortunately another one died a few weeks later from the chronic stress I think. I also had low levels of flukes and then a whitespot outbreak. Treated the flukes with flukesol and FMG for the whitespot and that cleared it up.
    Touch wood the remaining Koi and goldfish are fine know.
    Hope this helps

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  13. #11
    Junior Member Rank = Fry TriMan's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Elton.

    My issue is definitely a sick koi. As I got nowhere near catching it and didnít want to over stress it, I treated the pond with NT Labs Acriflavin as a first step. To be honest I donít know if it is the right stuff but I had some and I didnít think it would do any harm to add a antiseptic & anti-bacterial treatment.

    Over the couple of days since the koi has spent less time stationary at the bottom and is swimming near the surface more. Donít know if this is a good sign?It is still skittish but I have been able to take a better look. Itís scales are dull and there is a white sheen to the rear half. Nothing else obvious.

    Without any other information I have to think it could be a parasite or fungus. My biggest fear is the issue spreading through the rest of the fish. I was planning to start a parasite & fungus treatment today. I have bought an NT Labs treatment but not FMG. From what I can see this one is weaker so has to be done daily for 5 days. I am still learning!

    I have had koi for 17 years, just 3 and only lost one before. This has spurred me to think about what I need to look after them better as I want to add stock now I have a better pond. So far I have ordered treatments, a proper koi net and bowl. But also thinking about a supply of PDV salt, microscope, quarantine tank. What else should be in the koi keeperís toolkit?!

    Pic of sick fish included in case anyone can magically diagnose and advise!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Can't see from that pic. I would advise making a microscope top of your shopping list. It's not a good plan to be adding chemicals without a diagnosis.

    Hope you get it sorted.
    7500 litres
    Filtreau combi with uv.
    Some koi

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  16. #13
    Junior Member Rank = Fry TriMan's Avatar
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    I have to get better at catching a skittish fish before a microscope can come into play!

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  18. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    A Pan Net and a Koi Sock makes catching Koi relatively easy.

  19. #15
    Junior Member Rank = Fry TriMan's Avatar
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    I decided to get some expert help, as much to learn as to diagnose the problem. Also to give my set-up the once over. Des Harris from Koi Health & Pond Care came round this morning and provided loads of great information.

    The good news: the pond is in good shape, confirmed my water testing and that the filtration was working well. And except for the sick one, the fish are healthy. No parasites at all from scrapes.

    The bad news: when inspecting the sick fish, it was red raw on its belly. Because Des couldn't find any parasites at all, he thought it was an internal problem, most likely liver or kidney failure. So prognosis not good. We decided to give it some anti-biotics, in case it was a bacterial challenge. But we will let nature takes its course. Ironic that it survived a poor pond for many years, the last year in a very small temporary pond, and then it gets sick when it finally gets into suitable accommodation! It's a shame but it is just one older fish and nothing that threatens the general health.

    I also feel confident to have a go myself next time.

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  21. #16
    I just want to add that when a dealer says his fish had been through QT it most likely meant heat ramped to rule out KHV - it does not mean the fish is 100% parasites free. Even if the fish is parasites free it carries different strings of bacteria that your existing fish had never been exposed to - this was likely the cause of ulceration assume your water had always been good and parasites free and no sharp objects or rocks /gravel on bottom to cause injury.

    The standard QT procedure for buyer is to put new fish and 1 existing fish (least valuable fish just in case) in a QT system and observe for 4 weeks min. If both new fish and existing fish are OK then new fish can go into main pond. If something wrong develops itís easier and cheaper to treat in QT and to heat if needed.

    That said I donít usually QT my own new purchase given I only get fish from two dealers I know really well - I still put in double dose of Virkon to minimize new bacteria load to give existing fish a chance to get used to. I stupidly bought a really good fish off eBay and despite dipping it in 200ppm PP (2.5mins exposure) gill flukes survived and infested all my existing fish which resulted in 6weeks treatment of flukes with prazi and eventually Supaverm. All seems sorted now but I wonít make the same mistake again! Lesson learned hard way. I recently added two new fish and they were in a QT in 2ppm PP for 8hrs and Supaverm for 48hrs as preventative measures before I put them in the pond. Itís been 4 weeks and no issues.

  22. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elton View Post
    Hi, yes found out the problem in the end. There wasn't enough dissolved oxygen in the water even though there wasn't a problem over the last 10 years or so. I have a good waterfall return on the filter which had been fine up until this year when I added the new fish. Seems like it reached tipping point with the addition of the new fish. I visited Selective Koi Sales in Norfolk and they were really good and set me right. I bought x2 airpumps and good airstones and the results were almost instant. The fish perked up straight away. Unfortunately another one died a few weeks later from the chronic stress I think. I also had low levels of flukes and then a whitespot outbreak. Treated the flukes with flukesol and FMG for the whitespot and that cleared it up.
    Touch wood the remaining Koi and goldfish are fine know.
    Hope this helps
    I've got some sort of issue, got a couple of fish who sit on the pond floor although they do perk up and my Karashigoi swims along poking his head out of the water seems to do it constantly on times, he sits on floor as well that fish and my Chagio do it on times, I've had some flashing as well, last time I scraped I found nothing, my water temperature is pretty constant between 24.4 and 25.5 on times, but I try and keep it at 25, I got a 1500 4 tier shower and I got two 4" x 2" tubular air stones hanging on the back wall of pond, can also put the aerated drains on as well.

    How do you test for the dissolved oxygen?

  23. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    A Pan Net and a Koi Sock makes catching Koi relatively easy.

    I'm getting better at catching most of them, but trying to keep them under control to scrape them is a nightmare

  24. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    I'm getting better at catching most of them, but trying to keep them under control to scrape them is a nightmare

    More recently I've started adding a few squirts of sedate to the bowl with troublesome fish. I have it on good authority that flukes still move under the scope when taken from sedated fish. As for other parasites, someone told me they have found moving costia on scrapes from sedated fish, but I don't know how reliable that info was.

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  26. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    More recently I've started adding a few squirts of sedate to the bowl with troublesome fish. I have it on good authority that flukes still move under the scope when taken from sedated fish. As for other parasites, someone told me they have found moving costia on scrapes from sedated fish, but I don't know how reliable that info was.

    They seem to have settled down a bit, I cut the amount of feed I was giving them, knocked it down from 8 to 6, not sure if that's done it though, my Karashigoi still keeps swimming up to the top then goes down blowing bubbles and up and down it goes again, no idea why, got 4 fish that arrived the same time November 2020 and the Karashigoi is the biggest all 4 are different sizes and the same age

 

 

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