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  1. #1

    Repetative red rashing

    Hi,

    I have a mature 7,500 gallon pond with all the normal conditions
    7.8 PH, 6 KH, 6 GH, trace ammonia, nitrate and nitrite
    Oase Proficlear drum and moving beds, 240w UV circulating approximately 7,500 gallons per hour
    I have 30 mature fish between 55 and 73 cm
    I have been battling over the last six months to eliminate a selected number of fish suffering with recurring redness on the Pec and dorsal fins, decline into lethargy and loss of appetite
    Scrapes are all clear from parasite, the other 24 fish are healthy and do not suffer from the redness
    When treated with 3% salt and three days dosing of 150g of CT the problem disappears, only to return again a couple of weeks later
    Pond has been thoroughly cleaned with new hoses
    When I treat them in my 1000 gallon Quarantine tank I get exactly the same response and result as the Pond
    I am thinking it is a fish problem rather than a water quality issue. But I cannot identify a long term solution to the problem, Help please

    IMG_3078.jpg IMG_3080.jpg IMG_3081.jpg



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Tamadine worked well when I had the same issue with a Kohaku.
    7500 litres
    Filtreau combi with uv.
    Some koi

  3. #3
    Hi, Thanks for giving me your thoughts
    None of the redness is open wounds for something like Tamadine to be applied
    I have been through all the medications and even Baytill, the only success I get is temporary with CT and salt
    It looks horrible, but no deaths, they always bounce back. But I reckon it is only a matter of time before the redness turns into ulcers or sores and then the battle starts.

    At the moment I am treating the main pond with 150gr of CT x 4days with a ten day gap. The fish recover in 2-3 days and then deteriorate again after seven days
    The QT tank is on 3% salt and the same CT regime.

    I am trying to see if I can get an effect without the salt

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai g mac's Avatar
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    Hope you get it sorted.

    The Tamadine worked well for me on red areas, non ulcerated.
    7500 litres
    Filtreau combi with uv.
    Some koi

  5. #5
    tried virkon aquatic?

  6. #6
    I've tried to stick to Virasure and or CT and salt to avoid the chemical soup problem,
    But I am running out of options
    I will need 10 days to clear the system before trying Virkon, do you really think its any better than the other products I have used.
    Another suggestion I have from others is a 10ml Baytril course over 4 days. I have only done 5ml in the past

  7. #7
    The general consensus seems to be that it is a Bacterial problem. especially since the CT has a positive short term effect.
    So is the solution getting the right dose? I am dosing 20g / 1000 gallon.
    Or try a fish on10ml of Baytril over 4 days instead of 5ml?
    What does the sensible but cautious of you think?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    if you have eliminated the obvious problems like parameters and parasites, and believe it is a bacterial problem
    i'd get a biodip test kit from lincolnshire fish health, to test for pathogenic bacteria and some envirex to help degrade any sediment and restore bacterial balance.
    Products

    but i'd also be looking for anywhere in the pond where bad bacteria could thrive,
    sediment in plant baskets, liner folds, bottom drain pipework, filters, ect...

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  10. #9
    Thanks for your thoughts
    I have not come across biodip testing before, so it would be worth a go just to sanity check the water quality
    The pond and filter system are both spotless. New pipework, Fiberglass, no plants
    So we get back to what medication and dosage

  11. #10
    Basic and probably checked but Chlorine?

    But yeah otherwise water check for toxins/metals

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

  12. #11
    Member Rank = Nisai Paddy's Avatar
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    Yep I thought chlorine when I read it,

    Sent from my SM-G770F using Tapatalk

  13. #12
    Thanks, do you know if the DPD4 test will work with a 3% salt solution and CT in the water?

  14. #13
    No idea, Syd aka mankysanke would be your best bet to ask.

    Do you even have a dechlorinator or anything?

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    Last edited by CBKOI; 24-09-2022 at 06:45 PM.

  15. #14
    Member Rank = Nisai Paddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapenyaki1 View Post
    Thanks, do you know if the DPD4 test will work with a 3% salt solution and CT in the water?
    I don't see why they wouldn't work, as far as I know CT releases chlorine into the water and you need to dechlorinate the pond water

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  17. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Agree with above and do not mean 0.3% as not 3%..

    Not an expert but Rs on here says ct releases chlorine into the water so extra treatment is needed as in s/t .
    Last edited by john1; 25-09-2022 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Wrong spelling
    John

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  19. #16
    I have re-rested the pond, QT and mains water (after the dechlorinators) - No Chlorine
    How can I test for heavy metals?
    After a long conversation with The Lincolnshire Fish Health people I have started a small ozone generator on the QT tank
    I need to stop repeatedly using CT on a regular basis, it is not fixing the problem, and will be impacting on the good bacteria over time

  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CBKOI View Post
    No idea, Syd aka mankysanke would be your best bet to ask.

    Do you even have a dechlorinator or anything?

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
    Sorry I didn't notice this before but yes, as Paddy and John have said, DPD4 tablets will respond to Chloramine T by turning pink.

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  22. #18
    Thanks for coming back,
    Its been a week since the last CT dose and the DPD4 test is showing no color change
    Both pond, QT and mains water after the dechlorinator showing negative results
    I have put a small ozone generator on the QT tank to see if I can back away from using CT
    The people at Lincolnshire Fish Health are suggesting that I am past the water quality being in question and leaning towards a bacterial infection to which these six fish are susceptible.
    They are not keen on random Antibiotics as we don't know what we are trying to combat, a blood test might show something, but I would need to get a fish to Lincolnshire, not practical for me from Lancashire

  23. #19
    I speak to Paula regularly and we discuss many things, especially bacterial diseases and water quality, so I know how she feels about random antibiotics and repetitive pond treatments.

    If you're going to use ozone to kill bacteria then the best way is to treat the water out of the pond with a very high level of ozone, say directly after the biofilter, then massively aerate that water before it goes back to the pond to ensure you're not exposing the koi to the corrosive effects of a high level of ozone.

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  25. #20
    Thanks for your input
    Yes, I found Paula most helpful
    I take your point about aeration
    Lets give it a try on the QT tank, I will come back if I have some success
    Any recommendations for an ozone unit for a 7,500 gallon pond (ozone output). If this works I will look at a major addition to the pond

 

 
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