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  1. #1

    Nasty ulcer - same fish, same spot, worse this time...

    Hi,

    Had the same issue with this doitsu 2 years ago, always keep my eye on him but somehow missed a huge ulcer forming in the same spot plus a smaller one next to it but before cleaning it was quite blended into the skin colour.
    It looks awful and like it's been there a while but I could swear it wasn't there a week or two ago...

    Having some nitrite issues at the moment too.
    PH 8, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0.5, Nitrate 5

    I scraped the fish and two others (wasn't much mucous so didn't get the best scrapes) but found no parasites.

    Seeing how bad it was in the bowl, I did a quick sedate and used Kusuri Ulcer kit. I've read of adding Acriflavine, should I go ahead and treat the whole pond with this? After doing another water change for Nitrite?

    Wound is very concave with black/greyish stuff that comes away when you clean it. What are your thoughts... is it as bad as it looks? Should I carry on with the ulcer kit + acriflavine? Add or do anything differently?

    ps. he's been missing that ventral fin for as long as I've had him, not sure what happened.

    Thanks

    IMG_2027.jpgIMG_2027 (1).jpg



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Of course, it's better to be able to cure it, but maybe once a KOI has been affected, it may tend to carry the factor. If you really want to eliminate it, you have to get rid of that KOI.
    On the other hand, there are cases like the HARIWAKE I mentioned in an earlier thread, where the KOI may live out its natural life without ever being cured, so it's a choice for each individual.

    If you have a situation where a number of them get ulcer disease every year, that's a different matter.


    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 21-07-2022 at 03:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hi,
    Not an expert on treatments but of it was me I would keep treating the ulcer and use some Acriflavine as it is usually bacterial.

    I had a similar problem with mine many years ago but I had quite a few getting ulcers.
    Lost a couple but most survived and carry the scars to show for it,cant remember what I used but it was for bacterial.

    Good luck with it mate.
    John

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    For the treatment of ulcer disease, PARAZAN, which is mainly composed of oxolinic acid, has long been recognised as a specific remedy, and this still seems to be the case today.
    However, these were already noticed when I was in the UK, but it is often the case that what Peter Waddington brought in is widespread but what he did not involve is not recognised as such, and even now, decades later, most of these things have not been updated and none of the younger generation is trying to improve them.

    So I did a quick search, but the practice of using oxolinic acid to treat ulcer disease is not common in the UK, is it?
    However, I checked on another occasion the other day and it seems that even if it is not used by the KOI community in the UK, it is used by fisheries professionals and university institutions, etc. and is available.

    In Japan, it is established as a long-selling product under the trade name PARAZAN. In North America, we have also found that KOI shops sell small quantities of oxolinic acid from research institutes. In any case, it may be preferable that such antibiotics are not used in the UK, where there is a tendency to overuse drugs, as there is a risk of resistance being generated by overuse.

    In any case, it is hoped that more attention and development will be given to how to improve the immunity of the KOI to prevent illness, rather than just coping-oriented development.
    Last edited by Naoki Atsumi; 21-07-2022 at 11:55 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Naoki Atsumi View Post
    For the treatment of ulcer disease, PARAZAN, which is mainly composed of oxolinic acid, has long been recognised as a specific remedy, and this still seems to be the case today.
    However, these were already noticed when I was in the UK, but it is often the case that what Peter Waddington brought in is widespread but what he did not involve is not recognised as such, and even now, decades later, most of these things have not been updated and none of the younger generation is trying to improve them.

    So I did a quick search, but the practice of using oxolinic acid to treat ulcer disease is not common in the UK, is it?
    However, I checked on another occasion the other day and it seems that even if it is not used by the KOI community in the UK, it is used by fisheries professionals and university institutions, etc. and is available.

    In Japan, it is established as a long-selling product under the trade name PARAZAN. In North America, we have also found that KOI shops sell small quantities of oxolinic acid from research institutes. In any case, it may be preferable that such antibiotics are not used in the UK, where there is a tendency to overuse drugs, as there is a risk of resistance being generated by overuse.

    In any case, it is hoped that more attention and development will be given to how to improve the immunity of the KOI to prevent illness, rather than just coping-oriented development.
    Oxolinic acid is an antibiotic and modern enlightened thinking is that the random and uncontrolled use of antibiotics on animals, including fish, has contributed to the rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria. As a result, the practice is banned in the UK and antibiotics can only be obtained from appropriately trained people such as vets who should either administer the course of treatment themselves or only supply them to a pet owner if they are sure they understand how to administer antibiotics correctly.

    There are backward thinking countries where the use of antibiotics isn't so well controlled but the UK isn't one of those.

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  7. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Naoki Atsumi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manky Sanke View Post
    Oxolinic acid is an antibiotic and modern enlightened thinking is that the random and uncontrolled use of antibiotics on animals, including fish, has contributed to the rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria. As a result, the practice is banned in the UK and antibiotics can only be obtained from appropriately trained people such as vets who should either administer the course of treatment themselves or only supply them to a pet owner if they are sure they understand how to administer antibiotics correctly.

    There are backward thinking countries where the use of antibiotics isn't so well controlled but the UK isn't one of those.
    When I was there, the KOI dealers used a lot of injections of Vitril, but am I right in assuming that those are the same?

  8. #7
    I don't know of an antibiotic called Vitril but there is one called Baytril and it was common for it to be used as a wide range antibiotic without identifying if it would be the correct one for the particular infection. However, the Veterinary Medical Directorate Act of 2006 sought to control the use of antibiotics to prevent their uncontrolled use by inexperienced people from adding to the antimicrobial resistance.

    Similar bodies in the EU brought this legislation into practice at the same time. I don't know the full timeline but other enlightened countries introduced similar legislation at about the same time.

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